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  #1341  
Old 28.02.2015, 10:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Yes, I am sure because at least in my country there were already numerous cases brought to justice, and there is literally no-one above the law now. I won't even dare compare it with the '90s when you wouldn't hope you'll ever see the "smart boys" behind bars... How many big corruption cases were prosecuted in Russia? I mean involving important persons.
Of course there will always be attempts to corruption, or corruption to a certain degree everywhere, every rich/poor country has it...but not to a degree when it really affects so many things.
Btw, apparently Boris Nemtov from Russian opposition has just been assassinated. We've never been here since communism ended...I don't know, you tell me if this is good or bad...
In your country literally nobody is above the law? That's great, may I ask what country it is?
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  #1342  
Old 28.02.2015, 10:23
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "Ukraine's economic situation was very bad in 2013. It was very bad since the fall of the Soviet Union, but by 2013 it was getting dangerously bad."

Which is why Ukraine was turning to the EU and IMF to fund the solution.

But since then Ukraine lost its tourist trade because Russia stole Crimea, for the same reason Ukraine lost the large rent paid by Russia for Sevastopol and lost the opportunity to exploit their Black Sea energy reserves.

Now it is claimed that Russia is stealing all the coal from East Ukraine and selling it back to Ukraine.

Defence spending to counter Russian aggression is also going through the roof.

No I do not see a solution to Ukraine's financial problems unless Russia pays reparations for all the damage which is highly unlikely.
The idea that Russia attacked Ukraine because of being worried that by turning to IMF Ukraine would prosper too much and becomes an example for others -- I am sorry but this is just not connected to reality There is no such thing in Europe as economic recovery -- not for a while, and Ukraine would not be an exception.
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  #1343  
Old 28.02.2015, 12:02
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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In your country literally nobody is above the law? That's great, may I ask what country it is?
Of course: Romania.

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The idea that Russia attacked Ukraine because of being worried that by turning to IMF Ukraine would prosper too much and becomes an example for others -- I am sorry but this is just not connected to reality There is no such thing in Europe as economic recovery -- not for a while, and Ukraine would not be an exception.
Leonie, is Russia doing well, economically? Again, I want to know this from average people's perspective, if you are Russian you must know. Are Russians happy with how things are now, socially, economically, financially? Doesn't disturb them a bit to know that all the oligarchy are doing huuuge money on resources that should be used to develop their country? Aren't Russians tired of this, twenty something years from the fall of communism, to see all the patriotic slogans repeated over and over again? Well, I thought they were.
Again, from other people's perspective it's more important to progress in terms of justice, freedom of press, state institutions etc. than to bother with what the neighbours are doing. I don't like this type of mentality - it must be the neighbours, the Americans (the Russians), possibly the Jews, goodness knows who else for all our idiosyncrasies...
As I gathered from your comments, it seems that the Russian psyche is anchored in other things for the moment. (don't blame anyone here, mind you, because I understand how things are working)

Last edited by greenmount; 28.02.2015 at 12:23.
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  #1344  
Old 28.02.2015, 16:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Josef would be proud:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31672940
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  #1345  
Old 28.02.2015, 17:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The idea that Russia attacked Ukraine because of being worried that by turning to IMF Ukraine would prosper too much and becomes an example for others -- I am sorry but this is just not connected to reality There is no such thing in Europe as economic recovery -- not for a while, and Ukraine would not be an exception.
About "being worried that by turning to IMF" So you agree Russia was worried about Ukraine turning to EU?
I wrote "Which is why Ukraine was turning to the EU and IMF to fund the solution"
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  #1346  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

A couple of articles supposedly "linking" the assassination of Boris Nemtsov in Moscow to the Ukraine situation.

http://www.businessinsider.com/garry...nemtsov-2015-2


http://www.businessinsider.com/murde...ukraine-2015-2
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  #1347  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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A couple of articles supposedly "linking" the assassination of Boris Nemtsov in Moscow to the Ukraine situation.
The corpse is not cold yet and the media already know the whys and hows.
Even if it is indeed a political assassination, which is one out of quite a few hypothesis, people should just keep quiet instead of serving the ready-made feeding crap that serves their interests. This applies to all sides.
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  #1348  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?



So not only is the main opposition killed, but his computers taken to be learn about his contacts, to study all documents in his possession, etc... who was it that was asking the question "who benefits from all of this?"

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Murdered Russian oppositioner Boris Nemtsov was working on a report allegedly containing evidence of Russia's direct involvement in Ukraine's unrest, according to Nemtsov's fellow colleagues.
http://www.novinite.com/articles/166...;+-+Opposition

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Nemtsov’s house in Moscow is being searched. The investigators believe that all materials related to his business and political activity can help the investigation of the crime.

The source in the law enforcement authorities told Interfax that the materials in Nemtsov’s computer will also be checked.
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  #1349  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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"who benefits from all of this?"
The US propaganda machine profits also hugely, as one can see in the western media and your messages. It confirms the image the US wants Putin to have. It's very efficient PR.

Putin profits only if he had a lot to loose in the guy's computer, which is far than established. A statement is not an argument. Grade 6 curriculum.
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  #1350  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:40
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World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

To Understand Putin, Read Orwell
Ukraine, Russia and the Big Lie.
By TIMOTHY SNYDER

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ll-110551.html

Another:
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog...stalin-hitler/

Must be something in it because Russian news outlets were denouncing these texts.
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  #1351  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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To Understand Putin, Read Orwell
To understand any country with power, read Orwell, incl the US, Russia, China.... If you want to understand Google too, btw.
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  #1352  
Old 28.02.2015, 20:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The US propaganda machine profits also hugely, as one can see in the western media and your messages. It confirms the image the US wants Putin to have. It's very efficient PR.
Wouldn't the US benefit more from having a strong pro-Western political figure in Moscow (alive)? And other pro-Western groups that don't feel intimidated to speak out?

As for Putin's image, his own actions reflect that.

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Putin profits only if he had a lot to loose in the guy's computer, which is far than established.
...and now that the computer is in Putin's hands, we'll never know...
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  #1353  
Old 28.02.2015, 21:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Wouldn't the US benefit more from having a strong pro-Western political figure in Moscow (alive)?
The US don't need a pro-western in Moscow, alive. They need a bad guy anywhere in the world would do. It happens to be Putin in Russia at the moment. A friend has a price, an ennemi is priceless. It's international politics, remember?

That said, political assassination happened before, so did islamist attacks and manipulation from external organizations as well. I have no idea what happened, my point is hat NOBODY has an idea as it's too early. The noise in the media was ready-made and has nothing to do with the actual case. French ord of the day: récupération. It's a phrase in German: Kapital daraus schlagen.
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Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
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  #1354  
Old 28.02.2015, 21:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The corpse is not cold yet and the media already know the whys and hows.

Even if it is indeed a political assassination, which is one out of quite a few hypothesis, people should just keep quiet instead of serving the ready-made feeding crap that serves their interests. This applies to all sides.

... Because, even if it were a political one, it would have been investigated fairly and real masterminds behind it indicted?
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  #1355  
Old 28.02.2015, 21:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The US propaganda machine profits also hugely, as one can see in the western media and your messages. It confirms the image the US wants Putin to have. It's very efficient PR.

Putin profits only if he had a lot to loose in the guy's computer, which is far than established. A statement is not an argument. Grade 6 curriculum.
So who could organise an assassination in the most heavily policed part of Moscow that is full of security cameras without any Russian police response and no film of the incident?
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  #1356  
Old 28.02.2015, 21:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So who could organise an assassination in the most heavily policed part of Moscow that is full of security cameras without any Russian police response and no film of the incident?
That's exactly how conspiration theories start.

I advocate for TODAY, a careful list of possibilities and time will tell if we can short-list something or somebody.
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  #1357  
Old 28.02.2015, 22:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So who could organise an assassination in the most heavily policed part of Moscow that is full of security cameras without any Russian police response and no film of the incident?
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That's exactly how conspiration theories start.

I advocate for TODAY, a careful list of possibilities and time will tell if we can short-list something or somebody.
It was a question; not a theory
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  #1358  
Old 28.02.2015, 22:02
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

"[An organization of] a powerful state". That was the the tone in pravda.ru knee-jerk reaction article.

I actually think it was a provocateur who bought his equipment in a survival store. That's actually an explanation as from the presidents mouth and anybody calling me bluffing will have to wait until the end of a protracted investigation that may never end. In the meantime Holland and Merkel may still shake the unstained hand of Mr. President; they just need to watch for an errant snow-plough when taking off.
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  #1359  
Old 28.02.2015, 22:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I advocate for TODAY, a careful list of possibilities and time will tell if we can short-list something or somebody.

Only a few days ago, Nemtsov said he believed that Putin would kill him. Wouldn't any competent investigaton include Putin on a list of suspects? Yet the investigation has made no mention of Putin as a suspect, and is instead focusing on Islamic terrorists and jealous ex-husband(s)?

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Speaking to Russia's Sobesednik news website he said: "I'm afraid Putin will kill me. I believe that he was the one who unleashed the war in the Ukraine. I couldn't dislike him more."
Is that not a motive?...or maybe it explains why Putin has decided to handle the investigation personally?
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  #1360  
Old 28.02.2015, 22:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Only a few days ago, Nemtsov said he believed that Putin would kill him.
He also said that if somebody wanted to kill him, they would have done it already. People get interviewed about him at the moment, so there are many things being said. Just don't pick and chose what serves your obsession only.
And I don't even like Russia, I can only imagine how pissed russophiles must feel under this raining cheap rhetoric because even if I dream of huuuuge changes in Russia before I agree to go there (I refused already two invitations in five years), I can see the problem with anti-Russia propaganda.
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