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  #161  
Old 18.03.2014, 10:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The coup that happened in Kiev scared the hell out of many people in Ukraine. The Ukrainian far right groups have been very much involved in the revolution. One of the first things the new government did was to change the law which guaranteed equal rights to Russian and other languages. Take a look at the Freedom party and the Right Sector and see for yourself what they stand for.

Hence the occupation of Crimea. Actually this is the annexing. People of Crimea have voted and decided where they want to be, and thousands rally in the eastern cities of Ukraine in support of Crimea and Russia.
Actually, the Eastern part of Ukraine is generally politically passive. After the 2004 Orange Revolution there was not any protests in the Eastern part, there wasn't any suppression of ethnic Russians. In fact, 4 years later the leader of the Eastern part of Ukraine, Yanukovich, was elected into office.

The right-wing "facist" thing has been trumped up by Russia as an excuse to invade to "protect" Russians. There are some small right-wing radicals, but they don't have much pwer in Kiev. Actually, in Russia itself there are plenty of right-wing fascists in their government who suppress minorities much worse. The "rallies" in the Eastern part of Ukraine right now are being led by Russian Spetsnaz troops sent over the border to stir up provocation to give Russia a pretext to invade further.
http://www.examiner.com/article/russ...rested-ukraine
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/938ce...#axzz2wDLj3az7

Depending who you ask, they aren't gaining much traction with the local ethnic Russian population in Ukraine. Most Ukrainians, East and West, seem to be uniting in the face of a foreign invader. Of course there will always be radical fring groups on both sides, and they tend to get the media attention. Let's hope the calmer and rational heads prevail.


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http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1269.cfm

NATO LAUNCHES FIRST-EVER ATTACK ON A SOVEREIGN NATION -- SERBIA

NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY BEING ATTACKED

#1 GOAL -- UNITED NATIONS RULE OVER SOVEREIGN NATIONS

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/arti...set/bisset.htm

The NATO bombing: an assault on sovereignty

https://www.google.ch/search?q=nato+...overeign+state

"nato attack on a sovereign state"

About 1,500,000 results (0.41 seconds)

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...sharif-1913819

US drone attacks violate Pakistan's sovereignty: Nawaz Sharif

and so on...
So in order to justify Russia's takeover of Crimea, you can only repeatedly point to the bombing of NATO in Serbia? If referencing questionable acts is the best rationale you can find, then that doesn't say much about the basis of Russia's invasion of Crimea, does it?
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  #162  
Old 18.03.2014, 11:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Here's an example of some professional Russian protestors in Eastern Ukraine right now:

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During the bloody riots in Donetsk on the 13th March some Latvian Internet users noticed a man that strongly reminded them of a famous provocateur in their country named Alyosha. He got famous after a series of anti-government riots in Riga on the 13th February 2009.


http://www.stopfake.org/en/a-famous-...ts-of-donetsk/
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  #163  
Old 18.03.2014, 11:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Did the "Crimeans" get independence or did they become a satellite state of Russia complete with the Russian army in situ?
They got independence and immidiately applied to join Russia. Complete with Russian military, currency, passports and rights

Last edited by leonie; 18.03.2014 at 11:52.
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  #164  
Old 18.03.2014, 11:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Did the "Kosovars" get indep... oh, never mind...
Are you sure your account has not been hacked?

Anyway for a review of Kosovo versus Crimea look here.
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  #165  
Old 18.03.2014, 11:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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And why the newly installed oligarchs would be more democratic than the overthrown ones?
It's difficult to say anything in this moment as we don't quite see any firm response from E.U./West. Most of European countries depend on Russian gas - fact.
Oh, how they will pay the price for the lack of solidarity re. Nabucco project.......and the lack of solidarity in many other matters..

Last edited by greenmount; 18.03.2014 at 11:54. Reason: typo
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  #166  
Old 18.03.2014, 11:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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they got independance and immidiately applied to join russia. Complete with russian military, currency, passports and rights
lol :d
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  #167  
Old 18.03.2014, 11:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Actually, the Eastern part of Ukraine is generally politically passive....
What??? This is absolutely wrong. A lot of demonstrations have taken place in the eastern Ulraine over the last weekend in support of Crimea. They just don't like to report this on CNN
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  #168  
Old 18.03.2014, 12:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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They got independence and immidiately applied to join Russia. Complete with Russian military, currency, passports and rights
So let me understand - they had a referendum to be independent. The new leaders immediately ignored this result and applied to join Russia

Or was there another referendum about joining Russia?
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  #169  
Old 18.03.2014, 12:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So let me understand - they had a referendum to be independent. The new leaders immediately ignored this result and applied to join Russia

Or was there another referendum about joining Russia?
Would you like to google the 2 questions that people of Crimea have been asked during the referendum? This might clarify the situation a bit
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  #170  
Old 18.03.2014, 12:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I thought the referendum was to choose between staying with ukraine or joining russia.

Putin has declare that Crimea is an independent country.
There are a lot of hidden agenda there.
Hopefully things doesnt get worst than this.
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  #171  
Old 18.03.2014, 12:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Would you like to google the 2 questions that people of Crimea have been asked during the referendum? This might clarify the situation a bit
So you agree they did not vote to be independent; instead they voted "Are you in favour of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea reuniting with Russia as a constituent part of the Russian Federation?"
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  #172  
Old 18.03.2014, 12:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I thought the referendum was to choose between staying with ukraine or joining russia.

Putin has declare that Crimea is an independent country.
There are a lot of hidden agenda there.
Hopefully things doesnt get worst than this.
Not exactly. Crimea's parliament declared independence of Crimea, and Putin officially recognized it.

Just now I see in the news that Putin just signed the law about taking Crimea into Russian Federation.
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Old 18.03.2014, 12:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So you agree they did not vote to be independent; instead they voted "Are you in favour of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea reuniting with Russia as a constituent part of the Russian Federation?"
No, they have been asked 2 questions, not one
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  #174  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, they have been asked 2 questions, not one
But the two questions were contradictory
1. Do you want to be part of Russia?
2. Do you want to be independent?
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  #175  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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But the two questions were contradictory
1. Do you want to be part of Russia?
2. Do you want to be independent?
These are 2 questions of the referendum :

1. “Do you support reunifying Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?”
2. “Do you support the restoration of the 1992 Crimean constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”
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  #176  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:37
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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These are 2 questions of the referendum :

1. “Do you support reunifying Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?”
2. “Do you support the restoration of the 1992 Crimean constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”
So they never voted to be independent?

And were never given the opportunity to vote to be independent?

Last edited by marton; 18.03.2014 at 14:00.
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  #177  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:37
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Interesting report on Ukraine oil and gas reserves here.
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  #178  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So they never voted to be independent?
No, they didn't. They voted to stay with Russia or stay with Ukraine on special conditions. The second question is to vote for autonomous Crimea as part of Ukraine.
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  #179  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Did the "Crimeans" get independence or did they become a satellite state of Russia complete with the Russian army in situ?
Whatever they choose. But at least they have the choice now.

Just like Albanians.
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  #180  
Old 18.03.2014, 13:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Whatever they choose. But at least they have the choice now.

Just like Albanians.
You believe Russia will allow them to choose to leave Russia?
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