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Old 15.06.2014, 19:13
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UK consumer law updated to EU standards

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27833551

Online shoppers now have longer to cancel orders while complaints calls should be cheaper, under laws that take effect on Friday. (20.6.2014 )

The cooling-off period for an online order has been extended to 14 calendar days from seven working days.
Shoppers can claim a full refund during this period without having to give a reason for the cancellation.
Companies are also prevented from charging more than a local rate for a customer inquiry or complaint call.
The rules see the final stage of implementation of the EU Consumer Rights Directive.

These rights are already in place in Germany. Has Switzerland signed up to this as well?
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Old 15.06.2014, 19:37
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27833551

Online shoppers now have longer to cancel orders while complaints calls should be cheaper, under laws that take effect on Friday. (20.6.2014 )

The cooling-off period for an online order has been extended to 14 calendar days from seven working days.
Shoppers can claim a full refund during this period without having to give a reason for the cancellation.
Companies are also prevented from charging more than a local rate for a customer inquiry or complaint call.
The rules see the final stage of implementation of the EU Consumer Rights Directive.

These rights are already in place in Germany. Has Switzerland signed up to this as well?
Switzerland has not signed up, but then is not an EU member........there is no cooling off period in CH. People should think twice before buying things they can't afford.
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Old 15.06.2014, 20:59
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Switzerland has not signed up, but then is not an EU member........there is no cooling off period in CH. People should think twice before buying things they can't afford.
Mmm, not so sure a flippant comment like that should be made.
There are many 'bargains' that end up being far from that when it's fully understood, it's particular issue with elder people who may not know exactly what they signed up for or purchased.
Many will believe the site that it's a half price bargain and need to click to buy to get it before the deal runs out, only finding out after talking to others it was a mistake.
People do need protection like this and Switzerland is all the ignorant for not adopting such procedures to protect its citizens from rather unscrupulous companies.
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Old 15.06.2014, 21:21
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UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Mmm, not so sure a flippant comment like that should be made.

There are many 'bargains' that end up being far from that when it's fully understood, it's particular issue with elder people who may not know exactly what they signed up for or purchased.

Many will believe the site that it's a half price bargain and need to click to buy to get it before the deal runs out, only finding out after talking to others it was a mistake.

People do need protection like this and Switzerland is all the ignorant for not adopting such procedures to protect its citizens from rather unscrupulous companies.

I don't think older people are the fools you make out, it's the young that need protecting as credit is just too easy & they never saved up to buy anything

People need to take responsibility for their actions , it's a good starting point.
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Old 15.06.2014, 21:29
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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I don't think older people are the fools you make out, it's the young that need protecting as credit is just too easy & they never saved up to buy anything

People need to take responsibility for their actions , it's a good starting point.
I'm not calling old people fools

But some elderly people can be more easily taken in, and protection for the consumer is a good thing, god only knows how you think it isn't!
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Old 15.06.2014, 23:22
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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I'm not calling old people fools



But some elderly people can be more easily taken in, and protection for the consumer is a good thing, god only knows how you think it isn't!

The old people that easily get taken don't use the internet.
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Old 15.06.2014, 23:51
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

People older than me don't have the Internet, so it's a mute point.

However at any age you can be duped: look at the price differences on http://www.toppreise.ch/index.php

I think it is shameful that Switzerland protects the cheats working here.

Just today in the Swiss consumer magazine Beobachter, was a report that Bauknecht sells carbon filters for the cooker overhead fan units in Switzerland, at 7 times (600% more than) the price paid in Bauknecht Germany. If there was a 10 day cooling off period, customer might just avoid being ripped off (Switzerlanded)
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Old 15.06.2014, 23:54
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

Why not just do research before rather than after purchase .......
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Old 15.06.2014, 23:55
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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The old people that easily get taken don't use the internet.
Ooh I see, your right of course, no one old uses the internet, my own father at 79 doesn't surf the net with an ipad mini at all, just a figment of my imagination!
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Old 15.06.2014, 23:56
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Why not just do research before rather than after purchase .......
Because people make mistakes?
It's kinda normal, being human.....
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Old 15.06.2014, 23:59
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

Your father is only 9 years older than me, still an exception. Everyone I know older than me does not even have an e-mail address! I assure you it is a pita when trying to organise anything.
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Old 16.06.2014, 00:13
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Your father is only 9 years older than me, still an exception. Everyone I know older than me does not even have an e-mail address! I assure you it is a pita when trying to organise anything.
Appreciate your situation, and i don't know any oldies in Switzerland to say otherwise, but I think you find as prices for iPads type machines tumble, more and more older people move onto the internet with out too much clue what they are doing, or at least at first, with no disrespect. This is just an observance from my own family and my ex wife's parents
These people will be more vulnerable than those growing up with the internet and deserve to be protected, along with everyone else who uses it, young, middle and old!
I just can't fathom why FMF doesn't think protection should be in place to give a safety net to those less internet savay , or indeed perhaps more trusting, than others.
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Old 16.06.2014, 01:19
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Ooh I see, your right of course, no one old uses the internet, my own father at 79 doesn't surf the net with an ipad mini at all, just a figment of my imagination!
So does you father buy things on the internet by mistake? I doubt it, he knows he does not need more than 1 iPhone ........
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Old 16.06.2014, 01:23
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Appreciate your situation, and i don't know any oldies in Switzerland to say otherwise, but I think you find as prices for iPads type machines tumble, more and more older people move onto the internet with out too much clue what they are doing, or at least at first, with no disrespect. This is just an observance from my own family and my ex wife's parents
These people will be more vulnerable than those growing up with the internet and deserve to be protected, along with everyone else who uses it, young, middle and old!
I just can't fathom why FMF doesn't think protection should be in place to give a safety net to those less internet savay , or indeed perhaps more trusting, than others.
I think people should take 100% responsibility for their actions! it's what being an adult is all about. I buy shares, if the price falls 50% after I bought it's tough luck.
If people can't handle their affairs a receiver should be appointed, which is common when people are old & incapable of making rational decisions.
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Old 16.06.2014, 01:27
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

I wrote my first line of code on a computer in 1966, & so lucky for me, I have grown up with 'em. But when I offer to help older people get online, they run a mile! "We don't need all that rubbish, the risks, the cost, it just isn't worth it!" When I ask them which films are playing in Bern this week, the excuses pour out of 'em....

As you hint, more older people are arriving at retirement with computer skills: it does take a different way of thinking to get the best out of a given situation. And those older than me just don't seem to be very inquisitive.

Many younger people on EF have been caught out in situations, and lost money on things that could be avoided. It's not always the old that get Switzerlanded.
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Old 16.06.2014, 08:12
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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So does you father buy things on the internet by mistake? I doubt it, he knows he does not need more than 1 iPhone ........
You know my dad too?
You make some crazy assumptions, and, as he lives in England, he is protected from any such errors.
I'll be honest, I have no idea what ur referring to re iPhone .

And being responsible for your actions is a basic thing to say that of course no one can argue against, however it is utterly naive to believe people do not make mistakes and buy something they regret , maybe through ignorance , or maybe through crafty advertising, or just by plain mistake of being human, either way people deserve to be protected.

I guess this argument for me has run it's course, so I'll add no more
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Old 16.06.2014, 08:15
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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You know my dad too?
You make some crazy assumptions, and, as he lives in England, he is protected from any such errors.
I'll be honest, I have no idea what ur referring to re iPhone .

And being responsible for your actions is a basic thing to say that of course no one can argue against, however it is utterly naive to believe people do not make mistakes and buy something they regret , maybe through ignorance , or maybe through crafty advertising, or just by plain mistake of being human, either way people deserve to be protected.

I guess this argument for me has run it's course, so I'll add no more
You will ever make such a mistake once, it's actually a good lesson in life. I don't think protection people from stupidity helps them in the long run, they just rely on being able to wriggle out of whatever they have agreed to.
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Old 16.06.2014, 10:51
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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People older than me don't have the Internet, so it's a mute point.

However at any age you can be duped: look at the price differences on http://www.toppreise.ch/index.php

I think it is shameful that Switzerland protects the cheats working here.

Just today in the Swiss consumer magazine Beobachter, was a report that Bauknecht sells carbon filters for the cooker overhead fan units in Switzerland, at 7 times (600% more than) the price paid in Bauknecht Germany. If there was a 10 day cooling off period, customer might just avoid being ripped off (Switzerlanded)
Sbrinz, I couldnt agree more. People assume here that the Swiss authorities want to prevent that but simply put, they dont care. Its just put down to 'well, things are more expensive in Switzerland, deal with it'.

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Why not just do research before rather than after purchase .......
People make mistakes which only become apparent after the fact. Sometimes, you think you're able to splurge on something having saved for it for months, and bam, surprise invoice...Guess what, you cant afford it anymore. You now have to spend much more money on the thing you thought you could afford but it only now turns out you couldnt, and there was no way of knowing beforehand. Having a 14 day cooling off period would give people the ability to stay in control of their finances better, and make businesses make more of an effort to be upfront about all their costs and fees.


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Because people make mistakes?
It's kinda normal, being human.....
True.

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You will ever make such a mistake once, it's actually a good lesson in life. I don't think protection people from stupidity helps them in the long run, they just rely on being able to wriggle out of whatever they have agreed to.
Its not protection from stupidity, its protection from the unexpected and protection from unscrupulous business practices. Believe it or not, not everyone has a big cash cushion to fall back on when something unexpected happens or when they get taken advantage of.
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Old 16.06.2014, 12:41
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

The point of the law seems to be being missed here: it is not, primarily, to protect an idiot who buys something in a druken stupor or without thinking and then changes his mind in the morning. The point is that in a shop I can look at, hold and assess an item myself before I choose whether or not to purchase.

When buying online (or over the phone, or via a catalogue - both scenarios also covered by the UE and UK regulations) I am wholy reliant upon the company selling the item for an accurate description and representation of what I am getting.

As anyone who works in any form of engineering discipline will know the written word is always open to multiple interpretations - I may genuinely expect the product to be different from what I get, and that may not be because of any deliberate misrepresentation from the seller. So yes, I suppose I could take the most dishonest seller to court and get a refund for misrepresentation but that is laborious and costly.
In the majority of cases the seller won't be so deliberately misleading as to lose a court battle but I still got something very different from what I expected based on their advert.

The simple result of this is that in CH I will avoid buying things online and prefer to go somewhere where I can physically look at them first. The exceptions to this will be sellers who use PayPal and a few sellers who I know from experience to be very honest and to have a good returns policy. At the end of the day it's the online sales industry that will loose out as more people do the same after being "burnt"
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Old 16.06.2014, 13:15
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Re: UK consumer law updated to EU standards

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Sbrinz, I couldnt agree more. People assume here that the Swiss authorities want to prevent that but simply put, they dont care. Its just put down to 'well, things are more expensive in Switzerland, deal with it'.



People make mistakes which only become apparent after the fact. Sometimes, you think you're able to splurge on something having saved for it for months, and bam, surprise invoice...Guess what, you cant afford it anymore. You now have to spend much more money on the thing you thought you could afford but it only now turns out you couldnt, and there was no way of knowing beforehand. Having a 14 day cooling off period would give people the ability to stay in control of their finances better, and make businesses make more of an effort to be upfront about all their costs and fees.




True.



Its not protection from stupidity, its protection from the unexpected and protection from unscrupulous business practices. Believe it or not, not everyone has a big cash cushion to fall back on when something unexpected happens or when they get taken advantage of.

Protection from buyers remorse is absurd.
If the goods don't work that's another matter .
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