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  #401  
Old 16.11.2014, 00:36
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

A whole bunch of rebel social media accounts boasted having shot down what they thought was an Ukrainian military aircraft.
The posts were taken down when they realized that it was MH17.


After this self-admission, the rest is just noise for useful idiots.

Despite having had continuous access to the site since MH17 was downed, care to speculate why the Russians have not managed to produce ANY physical evidence supporting their side of the story? Resorting to such crude fakery is another sign that they know fully well that MH17 was shot down by a rebel BUK.
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  #402  
Old 16.11.2014, 01:35
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Well, as they're STILL trying to get access to the site, factual proof is a bit difficult to come by at the moment.

And frankly, the Russians haven't produced any compelling, definitive evidence either.
Russia has made available a lot of their data http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/ECD629...257D1D00251C76
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  #403  
Old 16.11.2014, 08:42
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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A whole bunch of rebel social media accounts boasted having shot down what they thought was an Ukrainian military aircraft...
There was no "whole bunch" of social media accounts, and they were reported by Kiev. The folks in Kiev — not unlike their NATO and US puppetmasters — have likewise made all manner of other claims without supplying a shred of credible supportive evidence.

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...Despite having had continuous access to the site since MH17 was downed, care to speculate why the Russians have not managed to produce ANY physical evidence supporting their side of the story?...
"The Russians" don't have an official "side of the story" — nor have they had any more or less access to the site than anybody else. They've presented their radar data, and called for transparency on the part of all parties. Meanwhile, the US has failed to provide data from a satellite that was above the site at the time of the crash, Kiev has not released their flight tracking data from the night of the crash, and the contents of the black boxes have likewise remained hidden.

Various governments have floated a few of their own contradictory (and largely anti-Russian) theories, but there is no official "Russian side of the story" to debunk or contradict because they've been consistently saying all along that other parties need to share whatever data they have before what exactly happened can be factually determined.
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  #404  
Old 16.11.2014, 09:58
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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There was no "whole bunch" of social media accounts, and they were reported by Kiev. The folks in Kiev — not unlike their NATO and US puppetmasters — have likewise made all manner of other claims without supplying a shred of credible supportive evidence.



"The Russians" don't have an official "side of the story" — nor have they had any more or less access to the site than anybody else. They've presented their radar data, and called for transparency on the part of all parties. Meanwhile, the US has failed to provide data from a satellite that was above the site at the time of the crash, Kiev has not released their flight tracking data from the night of the crash, and the contents of the black boxes has likewise remained hidden.

Various governments have floated a few of their own contradictory (and largely anti-Russian) theories, but there is no official "Russian side of the story" to debunk or contradict because they've been consistently saying all along that other parties need to share whatever data they have before what exactly happened can be factually determined.
"Various governments" have been repeatedly accusing Russia of being responsible for the MH17 tragedy without providing a shred of evidence to support that claim. You are absolutely right to point that they in fact didn't provide any data at all, and the worst part of it is that the international community, the public, the "independent media" -- nobody -- cares.
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  #405  
Old 16.11.2014, 19:21
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Maybe there is more to this story after all! Russian Channel 1 ("Perviy Kanal") has just released sensational new satellite photos of MH17 being shot down by what appears to be a saucer-shaped object, with clearly visible German markings

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  #406  
Old 17.11.2014, 09:42
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

This weekend Russia has released further photographic evidence supporting their claim that MH17 was downed by Ukrainian fighter jets :

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  #407  
Old 17.11.2014, 11:55
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Russia has made available a lot of their data http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/ECD629...257D1D00251C76
But they forgot the fake pictures of the Ukraine fighters shooting down the airliner
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  #408  
Old 17.11.2014, 11:58
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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There was no "whole bunch" of social media accounts, and they were reported by Kiev. The folks in Kiev — not unlike their NATO and US puppetmasters — have likewise made all manner of other claims without supplying a shred of credible supportive evidence.



"The Russians" don't have an official "side of the story" — nor have they had any more or less access to the site than anybody else. They've presented their radar data, and called for transparency on the part of all parties. Meanwhile, the US has failed to provide data from a satellite that was above the site at the time of the crash, Kiev has not released their flight tracking data from the night of the crash, and the contents of the black boxes have likewise remained hidden.

Various governments have floated a few of their own contradictory (and largely anti-Russian) theories, but there is no official "Russian side of the story" to debunk or contradict because they've been consistently saying all along that other parties need to share whatever data they have before what exactly happened can be factually determined.
About "the US has failed to provide data from a satellite that was above the site at the time of the crash" Your source for this?
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  #409  
Old 18.11.2014, 15:56
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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About "the US has failed to provide data from a satellite that was above the site at the time of the crash" Your source for this?
According to Reuters news on the english wiki US officials claimed that some of their statements were founded on IR-satellite pictures. Which of course means they have pictures of the area taken at the relevant time. Though unconfirmed, the LA Times is of the opinion that other types of satellites should be able to allow triangulating the rockets launch site.
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  #410  
Old 30.11.2014, 10:57
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

"It was a Malaysian jet, carrying Malaysian passengers, flown by Malaysian pilots, yet after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine in July 2014, Malaysia has been systematically blocked from participating in the investigation, leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence, investigation and outcome as well as the manner in which the investigation will be carried out."

....

"With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would too be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia."

http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh...s-of-cover-up/
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  #411  
Old 30.11.2014, 12:42
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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"It was a Malaysian jet, carrying Malaysian passengers, flown by Malaysian pilots, yet after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine in July 2014, Malaysia has been systematically blocked from participating in the investigation, leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence, investigation and outcome as well as the manner in which the investigation will be carried out."

....

"With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would too be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia."

http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh...s-of-cover-up/
Well, are you really surprised, given the mess they made of their previous investigation? Still, I agree they should be included, it is their plane that's missing after all.
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  #412  
Old 30.11.2014, 13:56
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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"It was a Malaysian jet, carrying Malaysian passengers, flown by Malaysian pilots, yet after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine in July 2014, Malaysia has been systematically blocked from participating in the investigation, leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence, investigation and outcome as well as the manner in which the investigation will be carried out."

....

"With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would too be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia."

http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh...s-of-cover-up/
Partly true!
Since 23 July an international investigation team has been conducting an examination to determine why the aircraft crashed.
The investigation team consists of 24 investigators with members from Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Germany, the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia.
A Malaysian team of 133 officials and experts, comprising search and recovery personnel, forensics experts, technical and medical experts visited the Ukraine. Due to pro-Russian rebel blocking activity this team eventually left without being able to achieve much.

The second investigation conducted in parallel is the criminal investigation into the downing of MH17 which is being led by the Public Prosecution Service of the Dutch Ministry of Justice. Besides the Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia are participating in the investigation, being the four members of the Joint Investigation Team; this is the team that Malaysia was not yet invited to join.

You wrote "...leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence...." The JIT team which Malaysia does not belong to consists of Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia - How is this "overwhelmingly pro-NATO"?

Last edited by marton; 30.11.2014 at 14:10.
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  #413  
Old 30.11.2014, 14:30
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Partly true!
Since 23 July an international investigation team has been conducting an examination to determine why the aircraft crashed.
The investigation team consists of 24 investigators with members from Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Germany, the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia.
A Malaysian team of 133 officials and experts, comprising search and recovery personnel, forensics experts, technical and medical experts visited the Ukraine. Due to pro-Russian rebel blocking activity this team eventually left without being able to achieve much.

The second investigation conducted in parallel is the criminal investigation into the downing of MH17 which is being led by the Public Prosecution Service of the Dutch Ministry of Justice. Besides the Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia are participating in the investigation, being the four members of the Joint Investigation Team; this is the team that Malaysia was not yet invited to join.

You wrote "...leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence...." The JIT team which Malaysia does not belong to consists of Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia - How is this "overwhelmingly pro-NATO"?
The reporter who wrote the article has called a team of Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia "overwhelmingly pro-NATO" and you seem to disagree. What are your arguments?

I think Ukraine being a part of the criminal investigation into the downing of MH17 is not appropriate -- they are suspects and should not be leading such an investigation. And I think that Malaysia should be invited.

Last edited by leonie; 30.11.2014 at 15:33. Reason: typo
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  #414  
Old 30.11.2014, 14:40
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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The reporter who wrote the article has called a team of Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia "overwhelmingly pro-NATO" and you seem to disagree. What are your arguments?

I think Ukraine being a part of the criminal investigation into the downing of MH17 is not appropriate -- they are suspects and should not be leading such an investigation. And I think that Malasya should be invited.
About "called a team of Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia "overwhelmingly pro-NATO" and you seem to disagree. What are your arguments?"

Of these 4 countries, only Netherlands & Belgium belong to NATO.
2 out of 4 is not "overwhelmingly"

Got it now?
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  #415  
Old 30.11.2014, 15:20
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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About "called a team of Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia "overwhelmingly pro-NATO" and you seem to disagree. What are your arguments?"

Of these 4 countries, only Netherlands & Belgium belong to NATO.
2 out of 4 is not "overwhelmingly"

Got it now?
Netherlands and Belgium belong to NATO.
Ukraine is definitely pro-NATO -- they have said it repeatedly. And Australia holds so called Major Non-NATO Ally designation which by definition makes it very much pro-NATO. Sorry I didn't get it Marton
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Old 30.11.2014, 15:52
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Netherlands and Belgium belong to NATO.
Ukraine is definitely pro-NATO -- they have said it repeatedly. And Australia holds so called Major Non-NATO Ally designation which by definition makes it very much pro-NATO. Sorry I didn't get it Marton

About "Ukraine is definitely pro-NATO -- they have said it repeatedly."

LOL with that definition you can call almost every country in the world a NATO ally.
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  #417  
Old 30.11.2014, 16:07
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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About "Ukraine is definitely pro-NATO -- they have said it repeatedly."

LOL with that definition you can call almost every country in the world a NATO ally.
Is Ukraine a NATO ally?
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  #418  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:50
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

From Blick: The mother of a German victim of the MH17 crash is suing Kiev in EU court. Due to internal hostilities, it was Kiev's obligation to close Ukrainian airspace to commercial traffic to avoid precisely what happened to MH17, but Kiev saw millions in flyover fees from over 700 flights per day as more important than passenger safety (follow the money).

The EF NATO-minions will be along shortly to provide a fact-free explanation as to why the grieving mother is wrong and it's all Putin's/Russia's fault (again).
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  #419  
Old 30.11.2014, 21:16
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

The airline should have routed the flight plan to avoid that area of ukraine or ukraine totally.
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  #420  
Old 30.11.2014, 22:10
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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The airline should have routed the flight plan to avoid that area of ukraine or ukraine totally.
Airlines fly where told to.
The Eurocontrol organisation controls routes in Europe.
Why would the airline not trust an Eurocontrol route?
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