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Old 17.07.2014, 18:38
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Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

A flight with 295 people has come down over Ukraine. The flight started in Amsterdam ein route to Kuala Lumpa. Interfax agency is saying it was shot down 50KM from the Russian border. http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/ma...h-295-on-board
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Old 17.07.2014, 18:39
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Israel/Palestinians won't start WW3. But this might....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856
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Old 17.07.2014, 18:42
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Re: Israel/Palestinians won't start WW3. But this might....

http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh...000Z/EHAM/WMKK
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Old 17.07.2014, 18:49
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Re: Israel/Palestinians won't start WW3. But this might....

Unluckiest airline ever
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Old 17.07.2014, 18:51
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Re: Israel/Palestinians won't start WW3. But this might....

At least they found this one
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Old 17.07.2014, 18:54
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

Oh, that is terrible!
The BBC is being more cautious at the moment, saying the plane "crashed".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-28354787
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Old 17.07.2014, 19:01
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

I think the odds that the plane has "crashed" by itself are close to none. Whereas the odds of trigger happy jockeys with access to high altitude SAMs in the area are a lot higher.

I suspect the bigger question will be why was the air corridor over east Ukraine not closed already.
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Old 17.07.2014, 19:07
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

Another MH one? Oh my goodness!

I also question why the air space around this area is not closed. Is it really worth saving a few cubic metres of fuel when there is such a risk? What a tragedy!
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Old 17.07.2014, 19:20
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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I think the odds that the plane has "crashed" by itself are close to none. Whereas the odds of trigger happy jockeys with access to high altitude SAMs in the area are a lot higher.

I suspect the bigger question will be why was the air corridor over east Ukraine not closed already.
From BBC news;

A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (9.7 miles) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar.

That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range.

The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles.
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Old 17.07.2014, 19:27
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

Rebels boasted about downing yet another AN just before this news broke. And yes, SAM installations were sighted there soon before.
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Old 17.07.2014, 19:51
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Oh no.... this is tragic...

Wether it is shot down or 'crashed', my condolences to all the family and friends of the passengers and crews...
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Old 17.07.2014, 20:10
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Christ on a bike. What were they even doing flying through a war zone where a plane had already been shot down in the past few days?

The go to place for a comprehensive discussion (if you can handle literally thousands of responses) is airliners.net (thread at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...n/6128856/1/#1)

Interesting quote from a Swiss guy: "I don't know about others, but we certainly avoid flying over the conflict regions in the south and west."
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Old 17.07.2014, 20:23
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Wouldn't want to be the Malaysian Chairman of the Board or anyone with loved ones on MH017 right now.

Mindless violence against innocents because you want a borderline redrawn to suit some political belief that you think is a good idea? That's insane.

I guess the one thing that becomes superfluous now is having liquids removed from you as you try to traverse airport security; it's rather irrelevant if some crazed ideologist is manning a SAM site around 30'000ft below and can't recognize a Triple 777 from a Sukhoi fighter.
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Old 17.07.2014, 20:31
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Another MH one? Oh my goodness!

I also question why the air space around this area is not closed. Is it really worth saving a few cubic metres of fuel when there is such a risk? What a tragedy!
You're quite right. According to the BBC Lufthansa has diverted 4 flights currently in the air to avoid the Ukraine. I would imagine most other airlines will now follow suit for their respective flights.

Not a good year for Malaysia Airlines - though in this instance it wouldn't appear to be their fault, at least initially.
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Old 17.07.2014, 20:41
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Not a good year for Malaysia Airlines - though in this instance it wouldn't appear to be their fault, at least initially.
Quite honestly, I wouldn't even have flown on Malaysia Airlines until MH370 had been explained; I don't know why anyone would. Still, it's bloody tragic for the people on the flight.
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Old 17.07.2014, 20:55
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Quite honestly, I wouldn't even have flown on Malaysia Airlines until MH370 had been explained; I don't know why anyone would.
Why on earth not? It's as safe as any other airline.

Chances are MH370 disappeared at the hands of one of the pilots. Chances are he's dead. If anything, MH is probably safer now than it was at the beginning of the year.
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Old 17.07.2014, 21:05
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Why on earth not? It's as safe as any other airline.
Apparently not, because they just flew an aircraft through a war zone where another plane had been shot down as recently as Monday. Other, more responsible airlines, were already avoiding that zone.

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Chances are MH370 disappeared at the hands of one of the pilots. Chances are he's dead. If anything, MH is probably safer now than it was at the beginning of the year.
Whatever you've read, nobody has any idea what downed MH370. If it's a systemic error with Malaysia Airlines, then that error is still there. I'm slicing a bit with Occam's Razor here to assume that it wasn't the 777 at fault, but that airplane has had a peerless safety record up to now.
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Old 17.07.2014, 21:09
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Quite honestly, I wouldn't even have flown on Malaysia Airlines until MH370 had been explained; I don't know why anyone would. Still, it's bloody tragic for the people on the flight.
Quite frankly it'll probably never be explained, at least in a conclusive manner. Speculative perhaps, but not conclusive.
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Old 17.07.2014, 21:12
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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You're quite right. According to the BBC Lufthansa has diverted 4 flights currently in the air to avoid the Ukraine. I would imagine most other airlines will now follow suit for their respective flights.
Yep. Flightstats shows several flights making changes to their paths to avoid that area.
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Old 17.07.2014, 21:13
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Apparently not, because they just flew an aircraft through a war zone where another plane had been shot down as recently as Monday. Other, more responsible airlines, were already avoiding that zone.
Really? Well, I guess Lufthansa, Virgin, etc, aren't very responsible.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28356745

From the sounds of it, neither is Eurocontrol, the European organisation for the safety of air navigation. Seems to me, they could all do with a good dose of common sense. This was a tragedy that could definitely have been avoided.
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