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  #301  
Old 09.10.2014, 16:59
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Likewise, concentrating on one group of filthy bastards because they're the ones who got caught is also missing the point. So we've put the minnows in prison, agonised over "cultural issues" in editorials and on message boards, announced that "lessons have been learnt".
Do you think the rampant sexual abuse of boys on the street in Peshawar and other Pakistani cities is because the men there prefer boys to girls, or do you think it because, due to Pakistani attitudes to women, all the girls are all kept at home out of harm's way?

People believe it's the latter and not the former.

Cultural attitudes do play a part in both verbal sexual abuse (as witnessed by enaj and me and others), and undoubtedly physical sexual abuse as well.
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  #302  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:06
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Cultural attitudes do play a part in both verbal sexual abuse (as witnessed by enaj and me and others), and undoubtedly physical sexual abuse as well.
Yeah, sure. But you're missing the point.

Some Pakistani men are exploitative bastards. Some British men in positions of power are exploitative bastards. We've (finally) caught a bunch of the exploitative Pakistani men. And, er, we've sort of named a couple of dead British men in positions of power who, er, sort of, did some stuff forty years ago.

And what about the rest of them? The ones who are still alive?
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  #303  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:15
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Some Pakistani men are exploitative bastards. Some British men in positions of power are exploitative bastards. We've (finally) caught a bunch of the exploitative Pakistani men. And, er, we've sort of named a couple of dead British men in positions of power who, er, sort of, did some stuff forty years ago.

And what about the rest of them? The ones who are still alive?

Lone offenders are psychological issues. Groups of men of the same ethnicity in diverse locations with the same pattern of behavior, this does not strike you as cultural, sociological and systemic?

And sure, there are other groups of men of other ethnicities. But if a group can be identified and addressed, shouldn't it be addressed?
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  #304  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:17
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Lone offenders are psychological issues. Groups of men of the same ethnicity in diverse locations with the same pattern of behavior, this does not strike you as cultural, sociological and systemic?
I'm not talking about lone offenders. I'm talking about the organised, systematic abuse of children by people who - shock! horror! - are neither Pakistani, nor actually in prison at the moment.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone here ever reads past page 2 of their newspapers...
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  #305  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:20
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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I'm not talking about lone offenders. I'm talking about the organised, systematic abuse of children by people who - shock! horror! - are neither Pakistani, nor actually in prison at the moment.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone here ever reads past page 2 of their newspapers...
Sure. We know there was a pattern of behavior with Catholic clergy, and pointing that out has brought about some progress in reform. There are reports of high-level politicians in various places as well. But why should we ignore this because we can't pin down the others?
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  #306  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:22
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Sure. We know there was a pattern of behavior with Catholic clergy, and pointing that out has brought about some progress in reform. There are reports of high-level politicians in various places as well. But why should we ignore this because we can't pin down the others?

I'm not inviting anyone to ignore anything. I'm suggesting that instead of all looking in the same direction, we maintain some vigilance and watch out for the abuse that is going on as we speak.

You know how stage conjurors work, right?

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There are reports of high-level politicians in various places as well.
Indeed there are. So you have been paying attention, then.
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  #307  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:24
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

The Death Sentence would cure most criminals of indulging in their crimes.

A little spell in prison is just a holiday for most. Needs to be a REAL deterrent in place.

(South Africa used to have the death sentence for murder and armed robbery. Nowadays every day sees "Al Capone" style armed robberies - and murder on a scale unimaginable. Because there is no more deterrent.
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  #308  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:26
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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The Death Sentence would cure most criminals of indulging in their crimes.
You have to catch them first.

And - more importantly - you have to want to catch them.
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  #309  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:27
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Groups of men of the same ethnicity in diverse locations with the same pattern of behavior, this does not strike you as cultural, sociological and systemic?
Should it be groups? Because Belgians for instance have a pretty ugly reputation(as in "pedophiles") in some parts of the world. They seem to operate individually, though.

P.S. Sorry I had to pick on them, it's just how some ideas start to form in people's minds. Obviously I don't believe it's "cultural".
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  #310  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:31
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Some things are attainable, some things take time to gel. Project Monarch, if any truth to it, already is too shrouded and out of reach, even by its own theory.

But laying legal groundwork here can lay groundwork for bigger fishes. Or is it not worth the indiginity some Pakistani men might feel for it? But if anyone hasn't done anything themselves, why would they feel slighted?
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  #311  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:32
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Some things are attainable, some things take time to gel. Project Monarch, if any truth to it, already is too shrouded and out of reach, even by its own theory.

But laying legal groundwork here can lay groundwork for bigger fishes. Or is it not worth the indiginity some Pakistani men might feel for it? But if anyone hasn't done anything themselves, why would they feel slighted?
Huh? Again, but in English?
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  #312  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:43
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Huh? Again, but in English?
Basically the opposite of the "Fish rot from the head down" saying.
I guess.
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  #313  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:50
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Should it be groups? Because Belgians for instance have a pretty ugly reputation(as in "pedophiles") in some parts of the world. They seem to operate individually, though.

P.S. Sorry I had to pick on them, it's just how some ideas start to form in people's minds. Obviously I don't believe it's "cultural".
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Huh? Again, but in English?
Well, if it is statistically higher with a particular cultural group, shouldn't it be noted? Or that does make you a racist for making a statistical observation?

The difference between this and some proposed powerful elite is there are testimonies about this. Testimonies about organized groups of paedofile politicians are not as forthcoming and not actionable. Should we wait until all groups are reported before reacting?
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  #314  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:51
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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The difference between this and some proposed powerful elite is there are testimonies about this. Testimonies about organized groups of paedofile politicians are not as forthcoming and not actionable. Should we wait until all groups are reported before reacting?
Never mind. You haven't been paying attention after all.
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  #315  
Old 09.10.2014, 18:03
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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P.S. Sorry I had to pick on them, it's just how some ideas start to form in people's minds. Obviously I don't believe it's "cultural".
In many parts of the world, modesty is expected of females all through life. In the west, fashion accentuates women's physique and even fashion for young children are sexualized from a very early age on. So from an outsider's perspective, the fashion may be appear provocative and demeaning. So there could very well be a cultural aspect to this.

As for horny dirty old men and perverts, yes, of course they exists throughout all cultures.
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  #316  
Old 09.10.2014, 18:07
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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And what about the rest of them? The ones who are still alive?
Over on another thread certain individuals are arguing that anybody who critcizes the TV license is a jerk, and anybody who doesn't even have a TV is even more of a jerk. State-run TV is such a wonderful institution and we should all support it and not mention the paedophiles.
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Old 09.10.2014, 19:35
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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In many parts of the world, modesty is expected of females all through life. In the west, fashion accentuates women's physique and even fashion for young children are sexualized from a very early age on. So from an outsider's perspective, the fashion may be appear provocative and demeaning. So there could very well be a cultural aspect to this.
.
As far as I noticed modesty of females is expected in many, many cultures. Not as in covering from head to toe, but there are certain behavioural expectations from girls, women throughout life...you can't deny it.
I know what you were referring to but please don't idealise some other cultures/societies..
Those abuses should have been punished irrespective of social class/ethnicity etc. of the offenders. And sometimes is more convincing to start with the bigger fish...imo.

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I
As for horny dirty old men and perverts, yes, of course they exists throughout all cultures.
No, it is not as petty as some might want to look at it. It affects human beings from poorer countries, it is organised, systematic and with the same perpetrators (mainly white and Western males). What should we make out of it?

Last edited by greenmount; 09.10.2014 at 19:45.
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  #318  
Old 09.10.2014, 21:45
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Those abuses should have been punished irrespective of social class/ethnicity etc. of the offenders.
I don't think any one is disagreeing with that.

But, to prevent this sort of thing happening again, it would surely be useful to look at the mechanisms in place that allowed it* to happen?

* It being:
  • The Radio DJs abuse
  • The Catholic church abuse
  • The MP/Cyril Smith abuse
  • The Pakistani abuse
Of course there are commonalities in all cases such as the lack of belief by the Police in abuse allegations from young people.
But looking from the side of the perpetrators, there must be ways to address the causes in a more specific way in each of the cases and without, for example, someone screaming racism in the Rotherham case which isn't really helpful.
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  #319  
Old 09.10.2014, 22:48
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Those abuses should have been punished irrespective of social class/ethnicity etc. of the offenders. And sometimes is more convincing to start with the bigger fish...imo.
I don't think you understand how certain cultures are structured, particularly Asian cultures. In the Far East, it is not uncommon for an old "gentlemen" to pick out an underage school girl and "sponsor" her through to adulthood. Or how some very, very young daughters are literally prostituted by their parents by the age of 8 or 9 in South Eastern Asia. Or how some men in patriarchical cultures of Pakistani pick out from the lower social classes whoever they want with impunity, described by women of the Pakistani community in the UK as the "raja complex".

Not cultural, eh? Are you sure?



Kalsoom Bashir: Rajah complex distorts reality
“It’s going to take decades to change this attitude, but if we don’t have an acknowledgment that this culture exists, people put their head in the sand and don’t confront it,” she added.


Matthew Syed:
Muslims must tackle the misogyny in their midst

Last edited by Phos; 09.10.2014 at 23:30.
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  #320  
Old 09.10.2014, 23:54
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Kalsoom Bashir: Rajah complex distorts reality
ďItís going to take decades to change this attitude, but if we donít have an acknowledgment that this culture exists, people put their head in the sand and donít confront it,Ē she added.
She's such a racist, that Pakistani woman. She should shut up! (eh, Porsche?)
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