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  #321  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:03
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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She's such a racist, that Pakistani woman. She should shut up! (eh, Porsche?)
I think I will stick to you shutting up when you're implying I have a problem with white people when I've shown no evidence to support that.
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  #322  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:07
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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I don't think you understand how certain cultures are structured, particularly Asian cultures. In the Far East, it is not uncommon for an old "gentlemen" to pick out an underage school girl and "sponsor" her through to adulthood. Or how some very, very young daughters are literally prostituted by their parents by the age of 8 or 9 in South Eastern Asia. Or how some men in patriarchical cultures of Pakistani pick out from the lower social classes whoever they want with impunity, described by women of the Pakistani community in the UK as the "raja complex".
Irrespective of what I can or cannot comprehend, know or not many things regarding foreign cultures (and no, I won't pretend I am an expert), the police should have done their duty and not use lame excuses such as "we didn't make any arrests and prosecutions because we were afraid of being accused of racism". That's ridiculous. They covered bigger fishes.
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  #323  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:15
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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If, instead of posting on this thread, and ignoring the systematic abuse in Rotherham, I started a new thread called "The attitude of men of Pakistani-origin to white, western women", where we could discuss this like adults, would you be happy with that or do you decide what is PC and/or allowed on this forum?

I too have observed lots of what Enaj described and to keep pretending it's not a cultural problem that exists both in the U.K., and in Pakistan, makes me wonder what your really think.

Why is it so off-limits to you?
Nothing is off-limits to me I don't decide, or pretend to decide anything on this forum.


Like I said I don't appreciate you implying I have a problem with white people when I've not indicated as much. Most of my close circle are all pasty white and I'm a nice olive brown colour.

I have no doubt that what Enaj described does happen. I never said it didn't. All I said is that what she describes isn't an event exclusive to Pakistanis. I'd probably ask how she knew they were pakistani not Indian as well. It was the same country afterall. Maybe prayer beads on the rear view mirror? There are a whole load of Muslims in India as well though.

Anyway...let's not prejudice get in the way of Tom trying to make a point.

I think it's fair to say that I, as a British-Pakistani person, know a lot more Pakistan and British Pakistani people than you do. I have circles of friends who are all British-Pakistani. I have visited Pakistan many times. Maybe it's just the company I keep but never has it cropped up in the conversation that we should pile into the sooped-up Lexus (let's face it all young British Pakistanis have 10 year old sooped up Lexuses) and go and gang rape a 14 year old. Or even just drive around and wolf whistle at them and give it a go. Maybe get a quick BJ from them. Not once. Like I said maybe it's the company I keep.

So knowing that maybe you can forgive me for thinking that this so called widespread attitude among Pakistani men of mistreating white girls exists to the extent that you, people in this thread, and the media have been portraying. I am British Pakistani, I've lived in predominantly British Pakistani ghetto areas in the UK, some of my closest friends are British Pakistani and I've not partaken in this 'debauchery'.

Like I said. It happens. Of course it does. It's disgusting. Is it exclusive to British Pakistanis. No.

Are there some groups in the British Pakistani community that need some educating about the law and what is right and wrong. Yes.

Are there some groups in every walk of society that need some educating about the law and what is right and wrong. Yes.
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  #324  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:19
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Irrespective of what I can or cannot comprehend, know or not many things regarding foreign cultures (and no, I won't pretend I am an expert), the police should have done their duty and not use lame excuses such as "we didn't make any arrests and prosecutions because we were afraid of being accused of racism". That's ridiculous. They covered bigger fishes.
I don't contest that. They need to enforce the rule of law impartially, whether crimes committed by Catholic clergy, powerful politicians, an ethnic group, or royalty. The fact they didn't for this ethnic group is an indicator they don't for even more privileged groups. That kind of corruption will erode a society and civilisation, and it already has.
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  #325  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:40
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Lone offenders are psychological issues. Groups of men of the same ethnicity in diverse locations with the same pattern of behavior, this does not strike you as cultural, sociological and systemic?

And sure, there are other groups of men of other ethnicities. But if a group can be identified and addressed, shouldn't it be addressed?


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Should it be groups? Because Belgians for instance have a pretty ugly reputation(as in "pedophiles") in some parts of the world. They seem to operate individually, though.
They are not operating alone. They have groups, forums, websites sharing their tricks, tips, results, experiences, expertise, etc.
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  #326  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:50
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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They are not operating alone. They have groups, forums, websites sharing their tricks, tips, results, experiences, expertise, etc.
My bad, I actually wanted to say they are not to be seen hanging around in groups.., they are white, well dressed (debatable), perfumed (debatable)...I know they are extremely well organised (heh, read one blog by mistake thinking it was something about travelling tips, and they were talking "codified"...it took me a while and some research to figure out what they were on about...disgusting!!!), same their brothers in Holland, etc.
The media rarely, extremely rarely makes any news out of this plague.
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  #327  
Old 10.10.2014, 10:01
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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I think I will stick to you shutting up when you're implying I have a problem with white people when I've shown no evidence to support that.
But do you agree with what Kalsoom Bashir, a British-Pakistani woman is saying?

What she is saying is basically what I was trying to say but from my mouth, it's racist. Is it from hers?

And before you step down from your high-horse, Pakistan (Not India) has one of the world's worst records for human rights for both women and children - so it' far, far from perfect.
Some of those viewpoints that have made the place like it is have undoubted crossed over to the Pakistani community in the U.K.

I'm surprised you've never seen the attitude to young white women. I've witnessed it both here in the North of England and in Pakistan.

That you haven't witnessed it is a poor argument. You probably don't mix in those circles.
I've never witnessed drug dealing on the street in the U.K. It doesn't follow that it doesn't go on though, does it?

It would be great to hear the views of some Pakistani women on this forum.

The women whose families have come originally from India have a huge , and great part of this forum.
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  #328  
Old 10.10.2014, 11:07
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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I'd probably ask how she knew they were pakistani not Indian as well. It was the same country afterall. Maybe prayer beads on the rear view mirror? There are a whole load of Muslims in India as well though.
You will notice that I gave you a 'thanks' for the post especially because of the last three sentences. But I wish I could groan at you for this particular piece.
1. Statistically speaking there are around 1.3 m person of pakistani origin (POPO) in UK, upward of 90% of these are muslims, and 1.6m POI of which 13% are muslims. So from a total of 1.3 m Muslims from the sub continent (minus Bangladesh) some 1.1m are Pakistani.
2. Indian Muslims are from all over India and featurewise, to the extent it can be generalized, are very different from each other. A Bengali will be, generally speaking, different from a Gujarati (Muslim or not) in more ways than one. OTOH most Pakistani-British (and they happen to be predominantly muslims) are from the North, North-Western (Urdu-Punjabi speaking belt).
When you combine 1 and 2, it becomes very logical for Enaj to assume somebody to be of Pakistani descent (If she can make out from their ways and features that they are muslims from the subcontinent).

Although the world is infested with prejudices, some of them have material fact as the basis. In UK, violence against women and honour killing is more likely to be assumed to be done by Pakistanis (and to some extent North Indians, especially Sikhs), financial irregularities (generally small) by Indians and illegal immigration by Bangladeshis. The basis could simply be the news items that are published. I repeat that it is an assumption and there might be honour killings among Bangladeshis, illegal immigration by Indians and financial irregularities by Pakistani, but this assumption is pretty 'general' in nature and I won't be surprised if somebody makes that assumption and generally comes out correct.
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  #329  
Old 10.10.2014, 14:15
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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These of course are things white people NEVER do
Of course white people do the same but not on the same scale and more discreetly. They also tend not to be so persistent and accept a NO as NO more readily!

Amongst (some)Pakistanis it seems to be an acceptable, organised way of behaving and treating women!
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  #330  
Old 10.10.2014, 14:16
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Aren't they British citizens? Why the emphasis on ethnicity?
Why not? And because of overproportional representation!

Last edited by Enaj; 10.10.2014 at 18:10.
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  #331  
Old 10.10.2014, 14:16
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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But do you agree with what Kalsoom Bashir, a British-Pakistani woman is saying?

What she is saying is basically what I was trying to say but from my mouth, it's racist. Is it from hers?

And before you step down from your high-horse, Pakistan (Not India) has one of the world's worst records for human rights for both women and children - so it' far, far from perfect.
Some of those viewpoints that have made the place like it is have undoubted crossed over to the Pakistani community in the U.K.

I'm surprised you've never seen the attitude to young white women. I've witnessed it both here in the North of England and in Pakistan.

That you haven't witnessed it is a poor argument. You probably don't mix in those circles.
I've never witnessed drug dealing on the street in the U.K. It doesn't follow that it doesn't go on though, does it?

It would be great to hear the views of some Pakistani women on this forum.

The women whose families have come originally from India have a huge , and great part of this forum.
Did you actually read my whole post or did you find a point that made you froth at the mouth and bang out this reply?

1. I didn't say that it doesn't go on. In fact I specifically said it does happen and it's disgusting.

2. I already said that perhaps it's just the company I keep that I haven't encountered it.

3. I'm not on any high horse. I have no illusions about what Pakistan is like or that it's some sort of Shangri-la. It's not perfect. It's the antithesis of perfect.

4. I've not watched the video. I've not called you a racist or a xenophobe.


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You will notice that I gave you a 'thanks' for the post especially because of the last three sentences. But I wish I could groan at you for this particular piece.
1. Statistically speaking there are around 1.3 m person of pakistani origin (POPO) in UK, upward of 90% of these are muslims, and 1.6m POI of which 13% are muslims. So from a total of 1.3 m Muslims from the sub continent (minus Bangladesh) some 1.1m are Pakistani.
2. Indian Muslims are from all over India and featurewise, to the extent it can be generalized, are very different from each other. A Bengali will be, generally speaking, different from a Gujarati (Muslim or not) in more ways than one. OTOH most Pakistani-British (and they happen to be predominantly muslims) are from the North, North-Western (Urdu-Punjabi speaking belt).
When you combine 1 and 2, it becomes very logical for Enaj to assume somebody to be of Pakistani descent (If she can make out from their ways and features that they are muslims from the subcontinent).
So you mean it could have been a car of Muslims from the 200k non-Pakistani Muslims in the UK? Thanks for supporting my point!

It was 2am in the morning. I very much doubt she got a good look at the car. In fact I'm sure a sensible person like her kept looking straight and didn't even look in the car for an extended period of time. I assume you're Indian so can make the distinction between Pakistani and the different areas of India quite easily. The average person in the UK can't.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.10.2014 at 15:46. Reason: removed personal attack
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  #332  
Old 10.10.2014, 14:54
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Of course white people do the same but not on the same scale and more discreetly. They also tend not to be so persistent and accept a NO as NO more readily!

Amongst (some)Pakistanis it seems to be an acceptable, organised way of behaving and treating women!
what a load of rubbish
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  #333  
Old 10.10.2014, 15:12
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

I get the sense that some are internalizing and personalizing this. If you haven't dome anything of the sort, is it necessary to feel indignant about it? Nobody is accusing anyone here of it. I think we can and should be more objective about this.
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  #334  
Old 10.10.2014, 15:50
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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So you mean it could have been a car of Muslims from the 200k non-Pakistani Muslims in the UK? Thanks for supporting my point!
Could be? Yes. But it is less likely for them to be muslims of Indian origin than of Pakistani origin, by a factor of say 1 in 6.

Regards

Last edited by sudeepta; 10.10.2014 at 16:03.
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  #335  
Old 10.10.2014, 17:26
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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4. I've not watched the video. I've not called you a racist or a xenophobe.
Just to add that it wasn't a video but an article in the Eastern Eye.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.10.2014 at 15:47. Reason: removed insult from quoted text
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  #336  
Old 17.10.2014, 13:58
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Police report reveals 75% of known on street child groomers are Asian whilst 82% of victims are white girls between the ages of 14 and 16. But there's no cultural factors at play, do ya hear?!

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news...eveals-7948902

What's more disconcerting is the "known" in the headline.
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  #337  
Old 17.10.2014, 14:40
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

The groomers had a method, and they repeated the same pattern over and over. They befriend the girl, treat them to food, offer a mobile phone, and slowly escalate it once they have the hook in place. In the case of the video with the Sikh victims, they even pretended to be Sikh at first.

This pattern needs to be studied, and disrupted by pre-emption as a quick stop-gap measure.
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  #338  
Old 17.10.2014, 15:49
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Police report reveals 75% of known on street child groomers are Asian whilst 82% of victims are white girls between the ages of 14 and 16. But there's no cultural factors at play, do ya hear?!

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news...eveals-7948902

What's more disconcerting is the "known" in the headline.
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  #339  
Old 17.10.2014, 18:43
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Police report reveals 75% of known on street child groomers are Asian whilst 82% of victims are white girls between the ages of 14 and 16. But there's no cultural factors at play, do ya hear?!

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news...eveals-7948902

What's more disconcerting is the "known" in the headline.

So there's on street groomers and off-street groomers? I think I would find the off-street groomers more dangerous; those that are in positions of power and protected by the system.
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  #340  
Old 17.10.2014, 18:56
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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So there's on street groomers and off-street groomers? I think I would find the off-street groomers more dangerous; those that are in positions of power and protected by the system.
The culture of white middle age men who groom little girls online doesn't need to be investigated.
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