Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 02.12.2014, 10:40
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 153
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 391 Times in 244 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
In unrelated news the battle for Donetsk airport has been suspended following talks between an Ukrainian and a Russian general - which amounts to a public acknowledgement of exactly who is in charge of "independent" "ukrainian" "militias".
I don't think anything has changed -- before and now Russia didn't admit to be actively participating in the conflict, but if you remember nobody has objected when in Minsk the agreement has been signed by the Russian ambassador in Ukraine. So why wouldn't now the Russian general and the Ukrainian general get together to discuss the implementation of the Minsk agreement? Because they forgot to invite the Europeans? This is the question to the Ukrainian side I would say
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #242  
Old 02.12.2014, 11:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 125 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
I don't think anything has changed -- before and now Russia didn't admit to be actively participating in the conflict, but if you remember nobody has objected when in Minsk the agreement has been signed by the Russian ambassador in Ukraine. So why wouldn't now the Russian general and the Ukrainian general get together to discuss the implementation of the Minsk agreement? Because they forgot to invite the Europeans? This is the question to the Ukrainian side I would say
The agreement has been signed by the Russian ambassador as one of the participating parties to the meeting. You know, like they sign on the Iranian talks.

Two generals negotiating an armistice in the field on a specific battle has a vastly different meaning. Nothing to do with the "implementation of the Minsk agreement" - it is a battle truce, where cessation of hostilities is agreed to by commanders of troops on the ground. You cannot "implement" a cease-fire agreement unless you have command authority over the troops...

But I guess that detail is subtly lost in translation while churning the Maskirovka machine

Carry on.
__________________
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily the opinions of management and in fact may be the opposite of that intended in order to confuse and obfuscate trolling readers.

Last edited by Shorrick Mk2; 02.12.2014 at 12:42.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Shorrick Mk2 for this useful post:
  #243  
Old 02.12.2014, 13:08
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 153
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 391 Times in 244 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
The agreement has been signed by the Russian ambassador as one of the participating parties to the meeting. You know, like they sign on the Iranian talks.

Two generals negotiating an armistice in the field on a specific battle has a vastly different meaning. Nothing to do with the "implementation of the Minsk agreement" - it is a battle truce, where cessation of hostilities is agreed to by commanders of troops on the ground. You cannot "implement" a cease-fire agreement unless you have command authority over the troops...

But I guess that detail is subtly lost in translation while churning the Maskirovka machine

Carry on.
It has everything to do with the Minsk agreement. Joint monitoring groups including Russian and Ukrainian military and OSCE representatives have been meeting repeatedly and monitoring the whether the Minsk-agreed cease-fire is being observed. On December 1 the Russian and the Ukrainian generals went to the area of the Donetsk airport and tried to negotiate the cease-fire. Ukrainian security officials say that a cease-fire has been declared.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #244  
Old 02.12.2014, 13:26
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 153
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 391 Times in 244 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

In a separate development new ceasefire just agreed in Lugansk. A Russian general attended the talks chaired by OSCE observers.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 02.12.2014, 13:34
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
...You managed to confuse me...
You have only yourself to blame for your confusion.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #246  
Old 02.12.2014, 15:14
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,527 Times in 4,670 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Everybody nowadays seems to be fixated about keeping ones currency depressed to boost exports.
For Russia they sell in dollars most of their exports thus the oil and gas companies will run fine, while the rest will get ultra competitive now with their costs slashed almost by half; and they can still afford vacation in Crimea, instead of going to hard-currency country. And they even might attract (more) tourists from abroad.
Quote:
View Post
IMHO they are very well prepared. Their dept is small, they have been buying gold like never before, their military is in good shape, they got connected with China which is extremely important for both I think, Putin just got a new gas deal with Turkey just now instead of the South Stream.
Russians are united in their support of the government. They remember what happened in the 90s when the drunk Yeltsin was so much loved by the West, but the country was looted and ran by gangsters. At the moment the people's support for Putin is huge. They are prepared -- it was spectacular how Crimea has been saved. No fighting, no deaths, very fast and clean operation. There had been a lot of Ukrainian military and police in Crimea at the time of takeover, and most of them just joined the Russians but in the beginning in was not so obvious that this would be that easy.
I am hopeful that Russia will not collapse, they seem to be in control.
Interesting how people post stuff here about Russia that even the Russians themselves do not support

The Russian deputy economy minister Alexei Vedev said today western sanctions would push Russia into recession next year.
The ministry also cut its forecast for the average oil price next year to $80 a barrel.
Capital flight is going to continue: the ministry raised its forecast for 2014 net capital outflows to $125bn from $100bn, and to $90bn in 2015 from $50bn.
Here is a link from the Guardian.

National daily newspaper Izvestia reported; "Federal space exploration agency Roscosmos could be forced to close down or indefinitely delay whole projects, as the country’s economic malaise takes its toll." Link here In Russian£
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 02.12.2014, 15:54
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 153
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 391 Times in 244 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Interesting how people post stuff here about Russia that even the Russians themselves do not support

The Russian deputy economy minister Alexei Vedev said today western sanctions would push Russia into recession next year.
The ministry also cut its forecast for the average oil price next year to $80 a barrel.
Capital flight is going to continue: the ministry raised its forecast for 2014 net capital outflows to $125bn from $100bn, and to $90bn in 2015 from $50bn.
Here is a link from the Guardian.

National daily newspaper Izvestia reported; "Federal space exploration agency Roscosmos could be forced to close down or indefinitely delay whole projects, as the country’s economic malaise takes its toll." Link here In Russian£
There is no question that the Russian economy is hurting. I just hope that they are prepared and will not collapse.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #248  
Old 02.12.2014, 20:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 125 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
It has everything to do with the Minsk agreement. Joint monitoring groups including Russian and Ukrainian military and OSCE representatives have been meeting repeatedly and monitoring the whether the Minsk-agreed cease-fire is being observed. On December 1 the Russian and the Ukrainian generals went to the area of the Donetsk airport and tried to negotiate the cease-fire. Ukrainian security officials say that a cease-fire has been declared.
Why would a Russian general negotiate a cease-fire if Russian troops aren't (supposedly) firing? Why a Russian general and not say a European one? Or a Chinese one?
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 02.12.2014, 23:25
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 153
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 391 Times in 244 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Why would a Russian general negotiate a cease-fire if Russian troops aren't (supposedly) firing? Why a Russian general and not say a European one? Or a Chinese one?
In May 2014 after the election of Poroshenko a so-called Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine has been created. This is a group of representatives from Ukraine, Russia and OSCE. The purpose of the group is to facilitate a diplomatic resolution of the conflict in the Eastern Ukraine. Why there are no Chinese representatives there -- I don't know, I suppose they don't care enough to get involved. Why the European representative was not present on the ceasefire for Donetsk airport I also don't know, as I said in the previous post it should have been probably the Ukrainian responsibility to invite the OSCE people (in another ceasefire deal which was announced today (in Luhansk) all three parties have been present during the talks -- OSCE, Russia and Ukraine). Anyway, this "agreement on airport" with Russian and Ukrainian generals have nothing to do with negotiating an armistice in the field on a specific battle. These people belong to the group which organized the Minsk agreement and now try to implement it. This is absolutely shocking how this simple story has been distorted -- people were told that the Russian general negotiates with the Ukrainan one so here is the proof that Russia is fighting in Ukraine...

Last edited by leonie; 02.12.2014 at 23:38.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #250  
Old 02.12.2014, 23:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 934
Groaned at 74 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 915 Times in 552 Posts
yacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputation
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

I don't recall when it was the last time an European country envoy was a soldier. Must have been like 70 years ago but even them the politicians were dealing the cards unless a besieged army negotiated terms of surrender.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #251  
Old 02.12.2014, 23:57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Oil is Russia's largest source of foreign revenue and the dropping oil price is having some dramatic effects on the Russian economy:




The Russian Central Bank is depleting its reserves of foreign currency and gold.





The rate of inflation is climbing.




The value of the ruble is collapsing.




The Russian GDP is at its lowest level in years and is expected to plunge further.


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bigfujitsu for this useful post:
  #252  
Old 03.12.2014, 00:29
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,527 Times in 4,670 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
In May 2014 after the election of Poroshenko a so-called Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine has been created. This is a group of representatives from Ukraine, Russia and OSCE. The purpose of the group is to facilitate a diplomatic resolution of the conflict in the Eastern Ukraine. Why there are no Chinese representatives there -- I don't know, I suppose they don't care enough to get involved. Why the European representative was not present on the ceasefire for Donetsk airport I also don't know, as I said in the previous post it should have been probably the Ukrainian responsibility to invite the OSCE people (in another ceasefire deal which was announced today (in Luhansk) all three parties have been present during the talks -- OSCE, Russia and Ukraine). Anyway, this "agreement on airport" with Russian and Ukrainian generals have nothing to do with negotiating an armistice in the field on a specific battle. These people belong to the group which organized the Minsk agreement and now try to implement it. This is absolutely shocking how this simple story has been distorted -- people were told that the Russian general negotiates with the Ukrainan one so here is the proof that Russia is fighting in Ukraine...
Here is the membership of the Trilateral Contact Group, which one is the Russian General?


Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:

Ambassador Heidi Talyavini (signed)

Second President of Ukraine, L.D. Kuchma (signed)

Ambassador of the Russian Federation in Ukraine, M.Y. Zurabov (signed)

A.V. Zakharchenko (signed)

I.V. Plotnitskiy (signed)
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 04.12.2014, 00:17
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
I don't think anything has changed -- before and now Russia didn't admit to be actively participating in the conflict, but if you remember nobody has objected when in Minsk the agreement has been signed by the Russian ambassador in Ukraine. So why wouldn't now the Russian general and the Ukrainian general get together to discuss the implementation of the Minsk agreement? Because they forgot to invite the Europeans? This is the question to the Ukrainian side I would say

Whether Russia does admit or not it is obvious that Russia DID and DOES participate very activily in the conflict. And you know at least as well as I do that the Russian public BACKS Mr Putin in this.


Nobody approved the Minsk Agreement. That generals of the USSR army meet is fairly normal
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 04.12.2014, 00:22
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Interesting how people post stuff here about Russia that even the Russians themselves do not support

The Russian deputy economy minister Alexei Vedev said today western sanctions would push Russia into recession next year

As the now have to pay REAL prices for REAL Emmentaler cheese as they no longer can get the FAKES
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #255  
Old 04.12.2014, 04:29
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Whether Russia does admit or not it is obvious that Russia DID and DOES participate very activily in the conflict...
Exactly how is it "obvious"?? (And exactly how is it ambiguous that certain other parties haven't been actively participating, but without being criticized for it?)

Quote:
View Post
...Nobody approved the Minsk Agreement. That generals of the USSR army meet is fairly normal
Seriously, get back on your meds.

Last edited by Texaner; 04.12.2014 at 05:16.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #256  
Old 04.12.2014, 05:29
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Exactly how is it "obvious"?? (And exactly how is it ambiguous that certain other parties haven't been actively participating, but without being criticized for it?)



Seriously, get back on your meds.


The meds do not help. And obvious means obvious from reports and clear from Russian history. I suggest you pay a visit to the Museum at the Kremlin. Beside this, the good friend of Dad, Mr B...., a half-Russian but a 200 percent Russian in reality would have wanted ODESSA to be returned to Russia
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 04.12.2014, 08:48
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 153
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 391 Times in 244 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Back in the days of the Soviet Union the month of December was the time when my parents were looking forward to the ice hokey games. Times changed -- today is an annual speech of Puting at the Federal meeting, and everybody is waiting for it and talking about it. At the moment Russia is clearly loosing the currency war with the West, people are waiting for direction.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #258  
Old 04.12.2014, 09:40
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
The meds do not help. And obvious means obvious from reports and clear from Russian history. I suggest you pay a visit to the Museum at the Kremlin. Beside this, the good friend of Dad, Mr B...., a half-Russian but a 200 percent Russian in reality would have wanted ODESSA to be returned to Russia
ähä — 'reports' and 'history' and the sentiments of family friends — but not actual facts.

(Seriously, you sound more like a voracious consumer of American 'media' — sans meds — with each post.)
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 04.12.2014, 11:48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Happening now Live on various news channels: Putin giving the annual state of the economy speech at the Kremlin.
Reply With Quote
  #260  
Old 04.12.2014, 12:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,018
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,743 Times in 1,935 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Why would a Russian general negotiate a cease-fire if Russian troops aren't (supposedly) firing? Why a Russian general and not say a European one? Or a Chinese one?
Do you mean to imply that Switzerland has troops there?

It was proposed that Bundesrat Burkhalter, while he was president(?) of OSCE, try to initiate and moderate peace talks between ukrainian government and the rebels. By your logic, therefor, Switzerland was/is actively involved there.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europe, military, nato, putin, russia




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
And the good news is...... Mowvich Daily life 35 26.08.2013 00:18
In the news - Childcare and Tax - can someone find me a news article ? swisspea Family matters/health 2 12.05.2012 10:04
..and the bad news is. Upthehatters2008 General off-topic 10 25.10.2010 16:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0