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  #101  
Old 18.11.2014, 16:01
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Don't worry, they'll not bomb a strategic ally or a place which could trigger a (nuclear) response. Switzerland is too close to both.
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  #102  
Old 18.11.2014, 18:44
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

From reading this thread it would seem that every time "Russia" is mentioned in a bellicose way people see mushroom clouds and that is what Putin wants.
It ain't gonna happen folks, back in the day perhaps in a time when the nukes were not fully understood, and the buggers in charge would have killed us all rather than not lose face, but not now, nukes are going the way of the crossbow, catapult and the trebuchet and even some religious nutcase with a nuke or two will only hasten their demise.
I really don't see what Putin is doing as nuclear blackmail, even though the tactic seems to be quite effective.
Churchill suggested nuking the Kremlin in 1947 (this, after operation unthinkable, where he wanted to rearm the rest of the Wehrmacht and defeat the Soviet union)
Eisenhauer threatened the use of Nukes in Korea and got the Chinese to sign the agreement.
Britain threatened China if they ever made a move on Hong Kong
Britain again, threatened to Nuke Argentinia if the French did not surrender the codes for the Exocet missiles during the Falkland war (alleged)
And again it is alleged that the US has been threatened by nuclear blackmail on multiple occasions and who knows what is still classified.
Nope! Unless some bugger does something exceptionally stupid we will not see any nukes used.
Hope I don't have to eat my radioactive hat at some point.
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  #103  
Old 18.11.2014, 19:02
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Nope! Unless some bugger does something exceptionally stupid we will not see any nukes used.
I largely agree with what you're saying slammer, but on this one I'm not completely sure on. It wouldn't be completely unthinkable for Putin to lose a small tactical nuke in the hands of the rebels and use it to draw a line in the sand in the middle of Ukraine. Do you think the west will respond with raining nukes on Russia and risk its own skin over this? I strongly doubt it. Maybe a similar nuke in response - and then politicians come up to save the world from doom - but as a result with a new iron curtain drawn up.

I seriously think Putin is considering that - and it's not that far fetched. He just doesn't want any more interference from the west into Russia that could threaten his reign.
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  #104  
Old 18.11.2014, 20:45
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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I largely agree with what you're saying slammer, but on this one I'm not completely sure on. It wouldn't be completely unthinkable for Putin to lose a small tactical nuke in the hands of the rebels and use it to draw a line in the sand in the middle of Ukraine. Do you think the west will respond with raining nukes on Russia and risk its own skin over this? I strongly doubt it. Maybe a similar nuke in response - and then politicians come up to save the world from doom - but as a result with a new iron curtain drawn up.

I seriously think Putin is considering that - and it's not that far fetched. He just doesn't want any more interference from the west into Russia that could threaten his reign.
That is cold war thinking and even though Putin is ex-KGB he is technocrat enough to realize that this is no longer an option, but also Putin is not grand dictator for life, in the Kremlin, like in all or most political constructs, he is subject to the will of the Duma, they are the guys with the money and the influence and they will let Putin prance around on a long leash and portrait "the Russian bear" untill it get´s too embarassing.
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  #105  
Old 19.11.2014, 00:17
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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I largely agree with what you're saying slammer, but on this one I'm not completely sure on. It wouldn't be completely unthinkable for Putin to lose a small tactical nuke in the hands of the rebels and use it to draw a line in the sand in the middle of Ukraine. Do you think the west will respond with raining nukes on Russia and risk its own skin over this? I strongly doubt it. Maybe a similar nuke in response - and then politicians come up to save the world from doom - but as a result with a new iron curtain drawn up.

I seriously think Putin is considering that - and it's not that far fetched. He just doesn't want any more interference from the west into Russia that could threaten his reign.
But this is what Obama said recently about ISIS. Obama always declared before that he will not deploy US ground troops to fight ISIS. But on Sunday for the first time he produced a scenario when he would order the US ground troops deployment. I think that the nuke will show up exactly where the US government needs it to be -- Ukraine, Iraq, maybe even Iran.
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  #106  
Old 20.11.2014, 17:28
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

do you believe everything that "Guardian" or "The Economist" publishes?!?!! He he he he he he he he he Silly, silly kittens...
The US government and it's allies have to come to the terms, that they belong to the world that no longer exists... their civilization of parasites and abuse is not going to advance any longer... it's agonizing and it is crystal clear.
Their last hope was to over take Russia, but the only way to do it is to decapitate it of Putin.
Thats why all the hysteria, thats why all the lies in press, more lies and more lies and propaganda, direct insults to Russian president... That's why sanctions, because they hope that if people's life in Russia will economically worsens, there is a higher chance to get rid of Putin.
Obama is translating absolute bullshit for an absolute truth right in your face with an expression of utter arrogance and utter satisfaction because of his stupid audience.

Russia is preparing for war, if you like to know, of what is going on exactly, but not to attack, but to defend itself.
Situation in the world right now is very dangerous and very similar to the one before WWII

All these !successful! infowars is to make it look as if Russia is cooking something while it is them who cook something. Russia, in it's turn, knows, the war is near and the only thing it is cooking is self defense.

Putin, if you like to know, is the only head of the country who represents the will of his people. THE ONLY ONE!

And now imagine for a little moment what the world would have been if Russia wouldn't stand in the way of this bunch of lieing, murdering criminals, for whom a human life worth nothing unless it is ensured with millions or better billions of dollars...

and what am i saying here? don't you already know it since you started to understand anything at all?!

Russia is a peaceful country - remember that.
And better remember how many times in history was it attacked and had wars on it's territory where millions were killed with many more lives ruined, just because of some mutant's unbridled appetites!

Last edited by Loubilou; 20.11.2014 at 17:44. Reason: adding soemthing
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  #107  
Old 20.11.2014, 17:37
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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do you believe everything that "Guardian" publishes?!?!! He he he he he he he he he Silly, silly kittens...
The US and it's allies have to come to the terms, that they belong to the world that no longer exists... their civilization of parasites and abuse is not going to advance any longer... it's agonizing and it is crystal clear.
Their last hope was to over take Russia, but the only way to do it is to decapitate it of Putin.
Thats why all the hysteria, thats why all the lies in press, more lies and more lies and propaganda, direct insults to Russian president... That's why sanctions, because they hope that if people's life in Russia will economically worsens, there is a higher chance to get rid of Putin.
Obama is translating absolute bullshit for an absolute truth right in your face with an expression of utter arrogance and utter satisfaction because of his stupid audience.

Russia is preparing for war, if you like to know, of what is going on exactly, but not to attack, but to defend itself.
Situation in the world right now is very dangerous and very similar to the one before WWII

All these !successful! infowars is to make it look as if Russia is cooking something, while Russia knows, the was is near and the only thing it is cooking is self defense.

Putin, if you like to know, is the only head of the country who represents the will of his people. THE ONLY ONE!

And now imagine for a little moment what the world would have been if Russia wouldn't stand in the way of this bunch of lieing, murdering criminals, for whom a human life worth nothing unless it is ensure with millions or better billions of dollars...

and what am i saying here? don't you already know it since you started to understand anything at all?!

Russia is a peaceful country - remember that.
And better remember how many times in history was it attacked and had wars on it's territory where millions were killed with many more lives ruined, just because of some mutant's unbridled appetites!
About "Russia is a peaceful country - remember that. Really? in the last 70 years it only invaded and kept the following countries;

Finnish territories (1940)
Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (1940)
The People's Socialist Republic of Albania (Satellite 1944–1960; government extant until 1992)
The People's Republic of Poland (1944–1989)
The People's Republic of Bulgaria (1946–1990)
The People's Republic of Romania (1947–1967)
The Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (1948–1989)
The German Democratic Republic (1949–1990)
The People's Republic of Hungary (1949–1990)
Northern Iran 1941–1946
Northern Norway 1944–1946 / Bornholm 1945–1946
Gustria 1945–1955
Manchuria 1945–1946
Korea 1945–1948
Kuril Islands 1945
Afghanistan 1979–1989
Crimea 2014
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  #108  
Old 20.11.2014, 17:55
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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About "Russia is a peaceful country - remember that. Really? in the last 70 years it only invaded and kept the following countries;

Finnish territories (1940)
Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (1940)
The People's Socialist Republic of Albania (Satellite 1944–1960; government extant until 1992)
The People's Republic of Poland (1944–1989)
The People's Republic of Bulgaria (1946–1990)
The People's Republic of Romania (1947–1967)
The Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (1948–1989)
The German Democratic Republic (1949–1990)
The People's Republic of Hungary (1949–1990)
Northern Iran 1941–1946
Northern Norway 1944–1946 / Bornholm 1945–1946
Gustria 1945–1955
Manchuria 1945–1946
Korea 1945–1948
Kuril Islands 1945
Afghanistan 1979–1989
Crimea 2014
yes really
your list is very pathetic and comes from someone very ignorant of the reasons of why this or that happened

study the reasons of why this list exists and come back.

Crimea was reunited with Russia after national referendum where people were crying with tears of happiness, because if it wouldn't be reunited with Russia at the right time it's people would be bombed by ukrainian army like people of Donbass right now...

oh, you didn't know that? it's probably cos "Guardian" doesn't write about it...
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  #109  
Old 20.11.2014, 18:01
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Interesting article from a Finnish newspaper about professional Russian internet trolls in St.Petersburg:

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Monday morning news in Finland starts with a story straight out of a dystopian Orwell novel from the country’s leading newspaper Helsingin Sanomat. It tells of a house in north St Petersburg that houses hired propaganda trolls whose sole purpose is to praise Russia and criticize the US on the Internet. Here over two hundred employees fight an information war to defend Russia 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They are charged with churning out comments praising Russian President Vladimir Putin, abusing the Ukrainian government and blaming the US for the Ukrainian crisis in various online communities.


Former youth Putin supporter Aleksey Kuznetsov used to work at a similar centre in Russia. “The trolls are ordinary people doing boring work, writing what they are told. My friend worked there as a commentator for a couple of months. He supports Putin, but praising him for 12 hours non-stop is pretty tedious,” says Kuznetsov from a cafe in the St. Petersburg Finland railway station.


Trolling on the Internet sows discord by posting inflammatory remarks. When it is done pointedly, it can further certain political causes. A list of such propaganda centres in Russia leaked last April shows that they do a wide variety of work, with units devoted to social media, press monitoring, search engines, blogs, online comments and discussion forums.



Some of the trolls are paid in cash, earning about 40,000 roubles per month (680 euros), a decent salary in St Petersburg. According to Kuznetsov, the centres routinely follow 30 to 40 news outlets. The Internet research group Internet issledovanija that hired the commentators continues to look for potential employees with a good command of English on their Russian job-search site. No one answers the phone at the number provided
http://yle.fi/uutiset/mondays_papers...a_plan/7632483
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  #110  
Old 20.11.2014, 18:13
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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yes really
your list is very pathetic and comes from someone very ignorant of the reasons of why this or that happened

study the reasons of why this list exists and come back.

Crimea was reunited with Russia after national referendum where people were crying with tears of happiness, because if it wouldn't be reunited with Russia at the right time it's people would be bombed by ukrainian army like people of Donbass right now...

oh, you didn't know that? it's probably cos "Guardian" doesn't write about it...
I understand the Crimean Tartars were crying but not with happiness.

About "study the reasons of why this list exists" because the Soviet saw an opportunity to build an Empire and enslave the inhabitants.
Now it seems Russia is reverting to old and successful methods.
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  #111  
Old 20.11.2014, 18:17
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Interesting article from a Finnish newspaper about professional Russian internet trolls in St.Petersburg:


http://yle.fi/uutiset/mondays_papers...a_plan/7632483
these people they are not trolls, these are the people who simply say the truth
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  #112  
Old 20.11.2014, 18:19
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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I understand the Crimean Tartars were crying but not with happiness.

About "study the reasons of why this list exists" because the Soviet saw an opportunity to build an Empire and enslave the inhabitants.
Now it seems Russia is reverting to old and successful methods.
why would Tatars cry? no one cared about them when they were under ukrainian law, now Putin restores their rights...

about successful methods, if WWII wouldn't take place, there won't ever been russian presence in most of this countries, but if you push Russia too hard perhaps it will be good if it comes back to these methods, but it will be only as a last desperate and forced measures...

anyway, i see now how pointless this discussion is

and it is sad to observe how far that all has gone...
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  #113  
Old 20.11.2014, 19:50
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Hadn't Soviet disease made a treaty with Nazis in 1939 and attacked Poland then maybe the history would've been slightly different. Hadn't Soviet revolution turned the country upside down, erased top military echelons and left the country in disarray, the Germans wouldn't be able to capture millions of soldiers and starve them methodically to death (see Nazis' Hunger Plan).
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  #114  
Old 20.11.2014, 20:02
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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these people they are not trolls, these are the people who simply say the truth
One persons "paid propaganda troll" is another person's "truth"
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  #115  
Old 20.11.2014, 20:11
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Interesting article from a Finnish newspaper about professional Russian internet trolls in St.Petersburg:


http://yle.fi/uutiset/mondays_papers...a_plan/7632483
About " (680 euros), a decent salary in St Petersburg." maybe I should follow Depardieu?
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  #116  
Old 20.11.2014, 21:55
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Oh come on guys, let´s bait the troll and see if it brings something else funny.
Quote:

yes really
your
list is very pathetic and comes from someone very ignorant of the reasons of why
this or that happened

study the reasons of why this list exists and come
back.
We do study the reasons, the main one of course was that "Uncle Joe" was a delusional paranoid mass murderer and unlike Hitler he was a personal coward misusing his powers to lash out at anything percieved as a threat.
I don´t think we have much to fear from Russkie weapons, after all, as one politician from one of the Baltic states remarked, "It`s only Russian technology"
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  #117  
Old 21.11.2014, 09:42
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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as one politician from one of the Baltic states remarked, "It`s only Russian technology"
It was the Latvian defense minister, and he seems to be getting in the trolling game as well :

Quote:
“Russia is showing that it still has geopolitical interests in Latvia and the region, and showing us and Nato how strong they are”, says Vejonis. “The warships they’re sending have the latest technology – OK, it’s Russian technology, but they’re sending the best ships they have.”
Brits getting in on the act as well: after Putin again said at the G20 that there aren't any Russian troops in Ukraine, the Brit embassy put a photo montage together to help Putin to identify his own tanks :

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  #118  
Old 21.11.2014, 11:05
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Crimea was reunited with Russia after national referendum where people were crying with tears of happiness, because if it wouldn't be reunited with Russia at the right time it's people would be bombed by ukrainian army like people of Donbass right now...

oh, you didn't know that? it's probably cos "Guardian" doesn't write about it...

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  #119  
Old 22.11.2014, 06:39
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

One thing that strikes me is a distinct difference in reporting, European news outlets seem to be more level whereas the US hits the panic button by talking about WW3, even asking the question if the US could win against Russia and weighing nuke for nuke, what comes over is that the US has a nuke deficit and needs more nukes, it would seem to be a the missile gap that wasn´t one all over again, maybe one of our stockmarket watchers could tell us if the shares have gone up on arms manafactures.
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  #120  
Old 22.11.2014, 11:14
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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yes really
your list is very pathetic and comes from someone very ignorant of the reasons of why this or that happened

study the reasons of why this list exists and come back.

Crimea was reunited with Russia after national referendum where people were crying with tears of happiness, because if it wouldn't be reunited with Russia at the right time it's people would be bombed by ukrainian army like people of Donbass right now...

oh, you didn't know that? it's probably cos "Guardian" doesn't write about it...

the Crimea bombed by the Ukrainian Army ? Hardly, as the Crimea into 2014 was Ukrainian ---- so sorry but your declaration cannot be believed for a moment


and "National Referendum" ? Crimea never was a NATION but just an area. The majority of people of the KRIM was Russian, so that the outcome was not surprising. My concern rather is that Putin now will launch such votes wherever there are regional Russian majorities in former USSR republics. Examples ?


- Eastern Estonia
- Eastern Latvia
- Eastern Lithuania
- White Russia (Belarus)
- Northern Kazakhstan


Those rulers in Central Asia who drove ethnic Russians out got it quite correctly
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