Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old 23.11.2014, 01:34
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
the Crimea bombed by the Ukrainian Army ? Hardly, as the Crimea into 2014 was Ukrainian ---- so sorry but your declaration cannot be believed for a moment


and "National Referendum" ? Crimea never was a NATION but just an area. The majority of people of the KRIM was Russian, so that the outcome was not surprising. My concern rather is that Putin now will launch such votes wherever there are regional Russian majorities in former USSR republics. Examples ?


- Eastern Estonia
- Eastern Latvia
- Eastern Lithuania
- White Russia (Belarus)
- Northern Kazakhstan


Those rulers in Central Asia who drove ethnic Russians out got it quite correctly
So I suppose you also consider Albanian self-declaration of independence null and void, and Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia.

Thanks, good to hear such views that oppose Western policies towards Serbia.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 23.11.2014, 01:39
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Russians fire mortars from school playgrounds, next to people houses, and then the Russian media only shows return fire hitting these areas and blaming the "Fascists". Maybe you should try reading the Guardian or a Swiss newspaper sometime, to get the full picture


Bosnian Muslims fire mortars from school playgrounds, next to people houses, and then the Western media only shows return fire hitting these areas and blaming the Serbs. Then you reading the Guardian or a Swiss newspaper sometime, to get the full picture.

And establish a Hague tribunal...
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 23.11.2014, 02:01
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 18 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
Loubilou has annoyed a few people around hereLoubilou has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

[QUOTE=marton;2287813]
Quote:
View Post


About "never mind the tatars, who are also safe now in Crimea"


Good to know.
In the last 60 years there were zero Tartars dragged off the streets by unknown groups and murdered.


Since Russia saved Crimea 18 Tartars were dragged off the streets by unknown groups and murdered.


Lucky Tartars.


Could you please explain why Mustafa Abdulcemil Kırımoğlu, former chairman of the Crimean Tatar Mejlis (assembly), has been banned from entering Russian territory, including Crimea, for five years, following Moscow's annexation of Crimea?
Also a Mejlis statement said the current deputy chairman of the Tatar Mejlis, Aslan Ömer Kırımlı, was also handed a notice similar to that of Kırımoğlu.
hey marton, are you a crimean tatar? somehow I am getting this impression from your posts, even though you called them "tartars" in your first post about it...
truth is, i have no idea about crimean tatar's story - it is impossible to know EVERYTHING

i speak of what i know.

Putin's economic advisor on Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWT5HM_NMlI
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 23.11.2014, 05:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
z

Quote:
View Post
So I suppose you also consider Albanian self-declaration of independence null and void, and Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia.

Thanks, good to hear such views that oppose Western policies towards Serbia.

Quite to the contrary I support the Albanian minority in Macedonia who want to secede from the Republic of Macedonia and join the INDEPENDENT Republic of Kosovo


In case of Central Asia, Moscow educated rulers Nursultan Naserbayev and Islam Karimov saw the problem long ago and took appropriate action. I btw. still support the Independence of the Republic of Chechnya
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Wollishofener for this post:
  #145  
Old 23.11.2014, 05:50
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Bosnian Muslims fire mortars from school playgrounds, next to people houses, and then the Western media only shows return fire hitting these areas and blaming the Serbs. Then you reading the Guardian or a Swiss newspaper sometime, to get the full picture.

And establish a Hague tribunal...

Where are premises of the Armed Forces in Switzerland during repetition courses ? The question is what were and are the targets ? School playgrounds ?
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 23.11.2014, 06:04
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

[QUOTE=Loubilou;2287826]
Quote:
View Post

hey marton, are you a crimean tatar? somehow I am getting this impression from your posts, even though you called them "tartars" in your first post about it...
truth is, i have no idea about crimean tatar's story - it is impossible to know EVERYTHING

i speak of what i know.

Putin's economic advisor on Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWT5HM_NMlI

You know far more than you admit to know. You know how Czaress Katharina II expanded Russia south and east and established a vast colonial empire . The ruthless Prussian lady in the Kreml also did some "ethnic cleansings" in her time. True, the Tatars in the Krim area then were under the rule of the 'Turkish Empire which failed to take the area back. The relevant part in the Kremlin Museum is quite impressive and clearly worth a visit
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 23.11.2014, 08:08
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Here's irrefutable PROOF of "Russian Aggression":


...Russian tanks in Crimea!!!


...and Russian troops — and ARTILLERY! — in Ukraine!!!


...MORE Russian troops in Ukraine, with a TANK even!!!


...and Russian troops (and a TANK!) in KIEV even!!!

Anybody who doesn't believe in "Russian Aggression" must be a TROLL! If you're not convinced by the pictures, just listen to endless string of uncorroborated anti-Russian accusations made by Obama, Biden, Poroshenko and the chorus of pro-NATO politicians!! They CAN'T be lying!!!

(Now get ready for the next round of "rebuttals" from the peanut gallery — without which this thread might not have lost all its credibility long ago.)
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 23.11.2014, 08:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,115
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,073 Times in 3,284 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Anybody who doesn't believe in "Russian Aggression" must be a TROLL! If you're not convinced by the pictures, just listen to endless string of uncorroborated anti-Russian accusations made by Obama, Biden, Poroshenko and the chorus of pro-NATO politicians!! They CAN'T be lying!!!

(Now get ready for the next round of "rebuttals" from the peanut gallery — without which this thread might not have lost all its credibility long ago.)
Why are you trying so hard?

Yeah, Russia is innocent as a child in this story because they have nothing to protect, isn't it? Not even my toaster believes it.

Last edited by greenmount; 23.11.2014 at 08:54.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #149  
Old 23.11.2014, 08:55
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Why are you trying so hard?
I'm not trying — I'm doing!

Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 23.11.2014, 09:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,115
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,073 Times in 3,284 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
I'm not trying — I'm doing!

I thought so.

For everyone who is reading Russian politicians' declarations on various subjects in the region is clearly they're lying all the time. Simple Russian folks might believe everything they're told by their leaders and see enemies everywhere....yeah, they should "unite" against the West now. (finding a common enemy - that's the classical recipe for dealing with the population when things don't go as they should)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #151  
Old 23.11.2014, 11:35
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bern, baby, Bern
Posts: 1,272
Groaned at 37 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,341 Times in 1,014 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
and if there are some russians coming over from Russia to join their brothers in their fight, who could blame them for doing so?
if a part of your family was in such trouble, wouldn't you help them?
This is exactly what Russian propaganda wants you to think and say. Propaganda is like alcohol, it feeds emotions and puts logic and reason to the side.

There was no war in the Donbass until Russian special agent Igor Girkin and 50 of his Russian comrades took over several Ukrainian government buildings in April (see here). The Ukrainian government did what any other government would do if their buildings were being held by masked gunmen, and came to take them back, not unlike how Putin "killed his own people" in trying to take back Chechnya. However, Girkin found himself losing quickly because there were not enough local Ukrainians willing to join in the fight (see here: "
Frankly speaking, however, the number of volunteers generated over the course of three month by the multimillion population of Donbass, the land of miners, where people are used to heavy and dangerous labour, has been too small. "
). So they started recruiting volunteers/mercenaries from Russia. As the war became more widespread, 50% of Donbass residents fled. The other 50% are hiding in basements, starving and praying for the war to end.

The war was started by Russians, and is being fueled by Russians, while Donbass residents flee and hide. Now, please go back and read what you wrote about "helping your brothers". It makes for a good emotional feeling, but logically speaking, bringing a war to the Donbass has not helped the people there at all. Any issues could have been solved peacefully/politically within Ukraine, without the "help" of armed Russians in ski-masks. Unfortunately this "help" has left 4,000 killed and counting...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank esto for this useful post:
  #152  
Old 23.11.2014, 13:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,522
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,548 Times in 4,684 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

[QUOTE=Loubilou;2287826]
Quote:
View Post

hey marton, are you a crimean tatar? somehow I am getting this impression from your posts, even though you called them "tartars" in your first post about it...
truth is, i have no idea about crimean tatar's story - it is impossible to know EVERYTHING

i speak of what i know.

Putin's economic advisor on Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWT5HM_NMlI
About "even though you called them "tartars"".

Tartar is one of the alternative spellings of Tatar as are Ta'tar and Tar'tar because there is no exact English equivalent, and always with a big "T"!

About "truth is, i have no idea about crimean tatar's story - it is impossible to know EVERYTHING"
Then why did you write "Putin has saved Crimean people from this, never mind the tatars, who are also safe now in Crimea."

How can you write the Tatars "are also safe now in Crimea" when you have "no idea"? Surely you are not lying?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #153  
Old 23.11.2014, 15:16
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 18 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
Loubilou has annoyed a few people around hereLoubilou has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

[QUOTE=marton;2288013]
Quote:
View Post

About "even though you called them "tartars"".

Tartar is one of the alternative spellings of Tatar as are Ta'tar and Tar'tar because there is no exact English equivalent, and always with a big "T"!

About "truth is, i have no idea about crimean tatar's story - it is impossible to know EVERYTHING"
Then why did you write "Putin has saved Crimean people from this, never mind the tatars, who are also safe now in Crimea."

How can you write the Tatars "are also safe now in Crimea" when you have "no idea"? Surely you are not lying?
by saying that tatars are safe now in crimea, i mean that, otherwise they would have been shelled by ukrainian army like it happens now in Donbass region, where people die every day...

Russia is being demonized in western media just to pre-shape the public opinion, so they can justify more and more sanctions on Russia in the public eye, more countries at russian boarders joining NATO and strengthening NATO's presence in eastern Europe...
Do you think, that if Russia really was at war with Ukraine, this war wouldn't have been over months ago? And russian tanks (if any) would have been in Kiev? Cos what would they be doing in Slaviansk and Lugansk murdering pro-russian civilians?

Maybe you want to tell me, that your politicians don't lie into your face to get away with anything they do? Would it be a discovery for you? Really?

So you finally found a demon of this world, which is Russia? lol lol

the second part of this video with Mitch Freierstein explains you why exactly they need all this hysteria, with Ebola, Isis, "demonic" Russia, while they can &%ü"0/ /&% £$ /& %% while you are thinking of much greater "dangers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zny0xZsHqMQ

Last edited by Loubilou; 23.11.2014 at 15:31.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 23.11.2014, 15:36
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: z

Quote:
View Post
Quite to the contrary I support the Albanian minority in Macedonia who want to secede from the Republic of Macedonia and join the INDEPENDENT Republic of Kosovo


In case of Central Asia, Moscow educated rulers Nursultan Naserbayev and Islam Karimov saw the problem long ago and took appropriate action. I btw. still support the Independence of the Republic of Chechnya
Then you also support Crimean Russians to secede from Ukraine and join Russia, unless you want to be accused of applying double standards...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank michleman for this useful post:
  #155  
Old 23.11.2014, 17:21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

After being sidelined at the G10 and leaving early with his tail between his legs, Putin is complaining about the West trying to topple him out of power


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/23/wo...html?hpt=hp_t1


The Putin System

Reply With Quote
This user groans at bigfujitsu for this post:
  #156  
Old 23.11.2014, 17:23
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,522
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,548 Times in 4,684 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: z

Quote:
View Post
Then you also support Crimean Russians to secede from Ukraine and join Russia, unless you want to be accused of applying double standards...
When they have a proper referendum with authenticated voter lists, international observers and the polling booths are not supervised by armed, regular Russian soldiers.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 23.11.2014, 17:27
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,522
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,548 Times in 4,684 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

[QUOTE=Loubilou;2288085]
Quote:
View Post

by saying that tatars are safe now in crimea, i mean that, otherwise they would have been shelled by ukrainian army like it happens now in Donbass region, where people die every day...

Russia is being demonized in western media just to pre-shape the public opinion, so they can justify more and more sanctions on Russia in the public eye, more countries at russian boarders joining NATO and strengthening NATO's presence in eastern Europe...
Do you think, that if Russia really was at war with Ukraine, this war wouldn't have been over months ago? And russian tanks (if any) would have been in Kiev? Cos what would they be doing in Slaviansk and Lugansk murdering pro-russian civilians?

Maybe you want to tell me, that your politicians don't lie into your face to get away with anything they do? Would it be a discovery for you? Really?

So you finally found a demon of this world, which is Russia? lol lol

the second part of this video with Mitch Freierstein explains you why exactly they need all this hysteria, with Ebola, Isis, "demonic" Russia, while they can &%ü"0/ /&% £$ /& %% while you are thinking of much greater "dangers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zny0xZsHqMQ
About "by saying that tatars are safe now in crimea, i mean that, otherwise they would have been shelled by ukrainian army"
Look at a map; why would the Tatar region be shelled? BTW Tatar and Ukraine both begin with Capital letters.

About "more countries at russian boarders joining NATO and strengthening NATO's presence in eastern Europe..." Look at a map, NATO only surrounds about a quarter of Russia; not a big deal??
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 23.11.2014, 17:30
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,522
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,548 Times in 4,684 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Here's irrefutable PROOF of "Russian Aggression":


...and Russian troops (and a TANK!) in KIEV even!!!

Anybody who doesn't believe in "Russian Aggression" must be a TROLL! If you're not convinced by the pictures, just listen to endless string of uncorroborated anti-Russian accusations made by Obama, Biden, Poroshenko and the chorus of pro-NATO politicians!! They CAN'T be lying!!!

(Now get ready for the next round of "rebuttals" from the peanut gallery — without which this thread might not have lost all its credibility long ago.)
Russian special agent Igor Girkin has agreed that Russia military are in Ukraine; or do you think he is lying? Why?
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 23.11.2014, 18:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 210 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Russian special agent Igor Girkin
You call Strelkov a special agent?!? Very special indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 23.11.2014, 18:21
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,662
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,789 Times in 2,131 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Quote:
View Post
Here's irrefutable PROOF of "Russian Aggression":

...and Russian troops (and a TANK!) in KIEV even!!!

Anybody who doesn't believe in "Russian Aggression" must be a TROLL! If you're not convinced by the pictures, just listen to endless string of uncorroborated anti-Russian accusations made by Obama, Biden, Poroshenko and the chorus of pro-NATO politicians!! They CAN'T be lying!!!

(Now get ready for the next round of "rebuttals" from the peanut gallery — without which this thread might not have lost all its credibility long ago.)
Sorry I don't get the point you are trying to make, is it happy Ukrainians welcoming the Red army with flowers and sweets?
Yes, but at the same time a resounding No!
If you want to go down history lane then you should be aware that after the atrocities of the Holodomor, the alleged genocide of the Ukraine population by starvation in 1933 courtesy of the Russians, The Ukrainians were quite happy for the chance of payback when the Germans came all invading, over half a million Ukrainians joined the Wehrmacht, ok so they backed the wrong team. However when the Germans went back Heim ins Reich (at the time also known as "Heim, uns reichts") I don't think it was tears of gratitude they were shedding when a pissed off Red army "liberated" Ukraine.
..here is something to read..
http://soviethistory.macalester.edu/...aine&Year=1947
__________________
Lummerland
Eine Insel mit zwei Bergen,
und im tiefen weiten Meer,
mit viel Tunnels und Geleisen
und dem Eisenbahnverkehr
nun wie mag die Insel heißen
ringsherum ist schöner Strand
jeder sollte einmal reisen
in das schöne Lummerland
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europe, military, nato, putin, russia




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
And the good news is...... Mowvich Daily life 35 26.08.2013 00:18
In the news - Childcare and Tax - can someone find me a news article ? swisspea Family matters/health 2 12.05.2012 10:04
..and the bad news is. Upthehatters2008 General off-topic 10 25.10.2010 16:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0