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  #181  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:35
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Save your breath, DB thinks we'll all kill beige skinned people in the street. I wonder who's the bigot here.
You're being as moronic as Yacek.

I never said anything like that.

Sorry you're not as special as you think you are, white girl. You're just another European.

Sucks, eh?
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  #182  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:37
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Don't be fooled. The EU isn't about peace it's about capitalism.
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  #183  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:37
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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...
For the rest of Europe, giving priority to an EU citizen over somebody from Africa, the Middle East or Asia is what will guarantee a peaceful future for Europe.
How will giving priority to EU citizen over national from other continent exactly guarantee peaceful future? The history showed quite the opposite ...

Last edited by jacek; 03.12.2014 at 22:51.
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  #184  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:37
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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You're being as moronic as Yacek.

I never said anything like that.

Sorry you're not as special as you think you are, white girl.
And what did you say, exactly, dear Sir?
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  #185  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:38
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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And what did you say, exactly, dear Sir?
You know exactly what I said, and it is nothing like what you just said I said.
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  #186  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:40
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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You're being as moronic as Yacek.

I never said anything like that.

Sorry you're not as special as you think you are, white girl. You're just another European.

Sucks, eh?
Tell THAT to many British immigrants (ooops sorry, expats)! Yep, it applies too.
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  #187  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:41
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Tell THAT to many British immigrants (ooops sorry, expats)! Yep, it applies too.
Of course it applies. I seem to recall having said exactly that in the post which irritated Greenmount.
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  #188  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:44
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Sorry you're not as special as you think you are, white girl. You're just another European.

Sucks, eh?
Yes, it sucks. I always have sunburns in the happiest moments of my life and I hate white! White skin, anyway. I don't hate snow, no no.
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  #189  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:46
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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This attitude isn't unique to eastern Europeans, mind. I suspect most Europeans secretly feel this way.
immigration is a very tricky subject in Europe, because origin actually means something. it means absolutely nothing to be an American, other than what a bunch of white dudes wrote on paper in the 18th century, which is a tremendous plus when it comes to immigration and is one of the reasons the US has historically done quite well with integration. well, leaving aside the fact that we have still failed to integrate the millions of African Americans upon whose backs the country was largely built, but that is another very unfortunate issue altogether. when an immigrant comes to America, they generally do so because they want to be American, and they know that they can be American without losing whatever origin they bring with them (which is one reason we Amis frustrate Europeans by insisting that we are "German-American" or "Irish-American").

on the flip side, however, being "German", or "Irish", or "Swiss", or whatever, means something more than just some ancient philosophical treatise, at least to many people. after all, the nation of Germany as we know it today has existed for barely 25 years, and yet the concept of "German" ancestry goes back several centuries before that. the act of immigrating does not change it, either - a Turk can immigrate to Detroit, Michigan and be an "American" almost overnight, his family can live in Berlin and yet, to other Germans, remain Turkish several generations later.

I suppose this is a long way of pointing out that "Europe" still remains, in many ways, a mythical conglomeration of what is still very much many tribes. the whole multi-culti experiment has been interesting, and has helped spur growth in some parts of Europe, but some manner of backlash was unfortunately inevitable - you can't change tens of thousands of years of human experience in the course of 25 years. in this regard, the Swiss are really no different than most other peoples - they are more than happy to poach talented people and import cheap labor from elsewhere, they would simply prefer that those people make as little fuss as possible and then go home when their usefulness has been expended.
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  #190  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:50
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Don't be fooled. The EU isn't about peace it's about capitalism.

I was very close to groaning at you for this one.

War is always about money. Maybe it was about something else before christ, however if you think about it it is always about money and power (money)

Peace comes through healthy economic cooperation. I recall the Germans enacted the Nazis to power because of economic hardships...
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  #191  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:51
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

@crazygringo, great post, thanks
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  #192  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:52
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I'll be blunt here and tell you exactly what I think the point is: white Europeans simply can't stand the idea that some people don't think they're the bees' knees when it comes to immigration.
No not at all, what they can't stand is the fact the UK expects to gain all the benefits of access to their markets, while excluding them from the opportunities it opens up. What it comes down to in the end is fairness - every citizen must benefit from the Union or it does not work. Now historically that was the way the Emire worked, but it is not how the EU works.
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  #193  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:53
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

What exactly does colonial means... People had butlers from elsewhere who made them cucumber sandwiches and chauffeured them to cricket?

I also think EU is about enlarging a selling market, getting rid off customs, etc. Capitalism to the extreme. Job and academic mobility is just a perk, but it is a very valuable one for loads of people.

Same way people have certain rights as citizens of certain state, they have secured certain rights as members of the union. I am not sure if those are apriori discriminatory, or, this discrimination is the necessary nature defining membership and those who simply meet the criteria. Just like people born in say Patagonia don't meet the criteria of having an EU membership..doesn't say EU is discriminatory. It says Patagonia is not in Europe. So, a socio-econo-geographical term. Plus, getting work I would consider meaningful and important for me in Patagonia might be as equally hard/easy as for a Patagonian anywhere in Europe. In the whole EU. So...it kinda isn't really picky. It nivelizes. Not sure how much I like it, Bohemians should stick out, at all times.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 03.12.2014 at 23:13.
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  #194  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:54
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I was very close to groaning at you for this one.

War is always about money. Maybe it was about something else before christ, however if you think about it it is always about money and power (money)

Peace comes through healthy economic cooperation. I recall the Germans enacted the Nazis to power because of economic hardships...
the freedom of goods and services Act is not about peace, surely?
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  #195  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:00
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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It's not about racism IMHO.
It's about what Europe has achieved over the past 50 years. And that is peace. In the late 30's the Nazi government convinced the Germans to go kill other Europeans because they were the enemy.
The European Union has achieved that a big part of every country's population has friends in other countries and wouldn't be so easily convinced that killing them would solve their problems.
And in order to achieve this various initiatives played their role. The Erasmus exchange program (and other similar ones) did play a significant role, but also the fact that people can so easily move to another European country and spend a few years of their life there.

I understand that the UK has been the most reluctant country in this process. You somehow think that because you are an island you are different.
So now you want to rethink the free movement of workers.
You know what, I am 100% pro BREXIT and I hope David Cameron forms a coalition government with the UKIP in the next elections.
Not because I don't like the Brits, but because I'm tired of their whining.

For the rest of Europe, giving priority to an EU citizen over somebody from Africa, the Middle East or Asia is what will guarantee a peaceful future for Europe.
It has nothing to do with some war / island / peace rubbish. Facts are even though you have to trek through Europe to get to England, it's still the number one destination of choice for immigrants (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/376...igration-in-EU). Far from being A bigoted set of whiners which it has been painted as here it is because Britain is so welcoming of anyone and has the best economy currently that people come here. How many black people migrated into Poland last year for example ? However the generosity of the UK people has its limits and now just for once they are trying to say 'yes, come but please can we put some kind of upper threshold on it' and of course at once everyone is up in arms about the racist Brits they can't get over the war.

Reason people come to Britain: it's fooking brilliant there. Sorry if that pisses on your chips with the bigot line, but it's the truth.
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  #196  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:13
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Not for all it isn't. For instance, from BBC news this Spring, just one of the 1000s of examples of sheer exploitation of immigrants in the UK now:

A decade ago 23 Chinese cockle pickers drowned when they were trapped by sweeping tides while working in Morecambe Bay, Lancashire. Yet, 10 years on, campaigners say workers are still being dangerously exploited in the UK.


BTW, I agree with the UK being 'fooking brilliant' as you say- lived there most of my life and loved it (did prefer malt vinegar on my chips though) but what are you doing here then - just wondering
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  #197  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:22
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Not for all it isn't. For instance, from BBC news this Spring, just one of the 1000s of examples of sheer exploitation of immigrants in the UK now:

A decade ago 23 Chinese cockle pickers drowned when they were trapped by sweeping tides while working in Morecambe Bay, Lancashire. Yet, 10 years on, campaigners say workers are still being dangerously exploited in the UK.


BTW, I agree with the UK being 'fooking brilliant' as you say- lived there most of my life and loved it (did prefer malt vinegar on my chips though) but what are you doing here then - just wondering
I'm working, like most people. The UK is great, but switzerland is also nice. I have kids now and while they are young CH is a good environment. When they are a bit older, we might return.

For the cockle packers, I remember it well it was grim. The statement is a general statement, you can't include all instances, especially those involving cash labour, in that. I'm sure it's horrible for some, but it's a great move for many more.
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  #198  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:25
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Fair enough- we might return to uk too at some point...

But there are many more:

Up to 13,000 working as slaves in UK

Government launches strategy to end slavery as number of victims found to be up to four times higher than thought


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  #199  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:32
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

I don't know about you folks, but after reading this long thread I feel the urge to cry. A good, long crying. It soothes one.
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  #200  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:33
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Fair enough- we might return to uk too at some point...

But there are many more:

Up to 13,000 working as slaves in UK

Government launches strategy to end slavery as number of victims found to be up to four times higher than thought


Out of several million currently in normal work. It's a terrible figure but as a percentage I doubt it is exceptional compared to other countries.
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