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  #201  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:36
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Reason people come to Britain: it's fooking brilliant there.
It is true. And I will celebrate that thought with some scones tomorrow.

But just because Greece pays less for a job or has no jobs at the moment, doesn't make it less awesome, tbh. Nor Greeks less generous in their ways. I am sure they would be if they could.

Maybe some people think that the UK generosity mentioned here isn't actually earned, or deserved in some way? I always thought locals and foreign EU nationals have an equal shot at the job market...so why would we expect from foreign adepts to have to earn it more, if we assume all work hard?
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  #202  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:38
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I don't know about you folks, but after reading this long thread I feel the urge to cry. A good, long crying. It soothes one.
I just feel wonderfully smug, living a long way away from that grey, damp, dogshit smeared nation so many people seem to be desperate to move to.

More fool them, I say. You'd have to be desperate - or stupid - to want to move there:

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  #203  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:47
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

I think its bedtime, Victor Meldrew!
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  #204  
Old 03.12.2014, 23:51
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Doesn't look much like the UK I was in last couple of weeks Time to watch the BBC news at 10.

Last edited by Odile; 04.12.2014 at 00:08.
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  #205  
Old 04.12.2014, 00:24
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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How will giving priority to EU citizen over national from other continent exactly guarantee peaceful future? The history showed quite the opposite ...
When and how did "the history" show the opposite?
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  #206  
Old 04.12.2014, 00:37
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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When and how did "the history" show the opposite?
Not looking back more than one century ago we had two WW, a war in Balkans, recent conflict involving parts of Ukraine and Russia just to name a few major events which do show that different European nations cannot coexist peacefully.
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  #207  
Old 04.12.2014, 09:32
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Cameron could be a bigoted thug who just happens to dislike Eastern European people for some reason we don't all know, or perhaps he can see there is a problem with an unrestricted immigration policy and (unless I am wrong) is trying to limit the type of immigrant into Britain as those who have the skills needed and not unskilled workers, rather than as switzerland does, put a hard limit on number of immigrants.
I don't think he is emotionally involved in this matter (liking, disliking) because if you look at his anti-something/someone speeches they always come to counteract other thugs - for instance Ukip/Farage or others. They can't risk losing votes and it doesn't matter where those votes are coming from so they use the same discourse. It's not unique, it happens in other countries too.

Where you are wrong is when you compare the Swiss system with GB, because Switzerland doesn't put a hard limit on number of immigrants from E.U. even though is not even a member. Yes, it has different treaties with different members, restrictions for a number of years which were lifted gradually, same as it happened within E.U. Don't forget that 7 years from joining E.U. is the maximum limit for work restrictions, it is written in the treaties and some countries have chosen not to apply them actually, some to apply them discriminatory. But the maximum is 7 years.

Last edited by greenmount; 04.12.2014 at 09:50.
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  #208  
Old 04.12.2014, 09:53
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I don't think he is emotionally involved in this matter (liking, disliking) because if you look at his anti-something/someone speeches they always come to counteract other thugs - for instance Ukip/Farage or others. They can't risk losing votes and it doesn't matter where those votes are coming from so they use the same discourse. It's not unique, it happens in other countries too.

Where you are wrong is when you compare the Swiss system with GB, because Switzerland doesn't put a hard limit on number of immigrants from E.U. even though is not even a member. Yes, it has different treaties with different members, restrictions for a number of years which were lifted gradually, same as it happened within E.U. Don't forget that 7 years from joining E.U. is the maximum limit for work restrictions, it is written in the treaties and some countries have chosen not to apply them actually, some to apply them discriminatory. But the maximum is 7 years.
I might be wrong here (genuinely) but there is a fixed number of permits per year Switzerland gives out I thought. Plus anyone can arrive, like England, but you only get any social welfare when you have a job and have been paying into the system for 12 months. So it's a cap on numbers and a cap on welfare out here.

If this is wrong I cede point, it's as I think it works.
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  #209  
Old 04.12.2014, 10:18
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Whoa, I think you guys are in serious need of reeling in. You need to separate reality from fantasy. Maybe perhaps check your meds, in need of meds, or perhaps check the lead content of the paint on your walls.

Shall we get to some facts?

Is there an immigration quota for those born in the commonwealth?
Yes. But there are some complicated loopholes depending where one is born and when.

Is there an immigration quota for Eastern Europeans?
No. The EU agreement prevents the implementation of a quota.

So this discussion to now has sounded like the breakup conversation between jilted lovers. Beautiful sentiments about the priority of brown-skinned brothers from previously colonized countries. But its just an online fantasy to date, isn't it? It actually hasn't made it into law.

As for Eastern Europeans, they can still migrate to the UK if they can find a job. The EU has the UK by the balls. The Spaniards are not about to let the Brits get away with the hypocrisy. The UK can threaten to leave the EU, but they won't. It can't afford further loss to its significance, and lose access to the EU market.

It was only a Cameron mind-fck, and notice he isn't mentioning immigration any more. If he does, he risks undermining his own credibility. They are trying to pass the issue to UKIP as a poison pill.
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  #210  
Old 04.12.2014, 10:23
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

< bites lip >
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  #211  
Old 04.12.2014, 10:33
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Not looking back more than one century ago we had two WW, a war in Balkans, recent conflict involving parts of Ukraine and Russia just to name a few major events which do show that different European nations cannot coexist peacefully.
You haven't even read what I've written, have you?
I said that thanks to the EU, and thanks to people moving around Europe freely, making friends and falling in love, we make sure that there will be no more wars in Europe.
Your reference to what was the case before the EU actually strengthens my arguments (not that there was need for this, I assume everybody else but you understood what I said).
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Old 04.12.2014, 10:37
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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You haven't even read what I've written, have you?
I said that thanks to the EU, and thanks to people moving around Europe freely, making friends and falling in love, we make sure that there will be no more wars in Europe.
Your reference to what was the case before the EU actually strengthens my arguments (not that there was need for this, I assume everybody else but you understood what I said).
I guess you over-romanticise the EU a bit there. I agree with MG, the EU isn't anything but a capitalist bloc.
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  #213  
Old 04.12.2014, 11:00
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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You haven't even read what I've written, have you?
I said that thanks to the EU, and thanks to people moving around Europe freely, making friends and falling in love, we make sure that there will be no more wars in Europe.
Your reference to what was the case before the EU actually strengthens my arguments (not that there was need for this, I assume everybody else but you understood what I said).
I read your comment the way it has been written and still disagree.

What did EU achieved in terms of conflict in Ukraine and how it promptly resolved it? Maybe we should ask those Dutch family members who lost their beloved ones in the senseless shooting down of the plane? I would like to see those immigrants agreeing with you who left behind their beloved one's and children taking up work in other countries. Their choice of course, right? No to mention split families and distant relationships. I could go on and on various countries currencies depreciation and economic crises more down south ...

How further EU will make sure that wars and conflicts are prevented we or our successors shall see in the future of your romantic EU bubble.

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I guess you over-romanticise the EU a bit there. I agree with MG, the EU isn't anything but a capitalist bollocks.
FTFY
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  #214  
Old 04.12.2014, 11:40
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I read your comment the way it has been written and still disagree.

What did EU achieved in terms of conflict in Ukraine and how it promptly resolved it? Maybe we should ask those Dutch family members who lost their beloved ones in the senseless shooting down of the plane? I would like to see those immigrants agreeing with you who left behind their beloved one's and children taking up work in other countries. Their choice of course, right? No to mention split families and distant relationships. I could go on and on various countries currencies depreciation and economic crises more down south ...

How further EU will make sure that wars and conflicts are prevented we or our successors shall see in the future of your romantic EU bubble.
If you disagree with my comment you can express your disagreement.
What you can't do is just say that "the history" has proved me wrong and when asked to give historical examples you go back about half a century before what I'm referring to even started being created.
Either you hadn't understood what I had written or you were just trolling.
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Old 04.12.2014, 11:45
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Are you saying that the EC / EU has kept peace in Europe for the past 50 years?
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  #216  
Old 04.12.2014, 11:46
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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If you disagree with my comment you can express your disagreement.
What you can't do is just say that "the history" has proved me wrong and when asked to give historical examples you go back about half a century before what I'm referring to even started being created.
Either you hadn't understood what I had written or you were just trolling.
Conflict in Ukraine is not contemporary issue in united Europe?

Either you utterly and completely missed my point or you just reject to read it thru your romantic tinted glasses?
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Old 04.12.2014, 11:50
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I guess you over-romanticise the EU a bit there. I agree with MG, the EU isn't anything but a capitalist bloc.
Oh the horror.
Since when is Capitalism bad?
Really? Am I back at Greek university trying to hopelessly argue with the leftists?
I prefer Capitalism to pretty much all the alternatives I've heard about and I'm glad I was born in the capitalist side of the world.
Though to be honest, I like the European variation of Capitalism more than other versions.

Is this your problem with the EU? That it's capitalistic?
I have plenty of issues with the EU and I mean real issues, not vague remarks about it being capitalistic.

I was specifically answering DB who was asking why European citizens should have priority over non European citizens. Do you disagree that by making sure that we all move around freely and get to know each other we have drastically reduced the risk of a new war in Europe?

To our Ukrainian friends: my apologies but in this context Ukraine is not part of Europe. I sincerely hope your country becomes a full member in the next couple of decades.
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  #218  
Old 04.12.2014, 11:53
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Are you saying that the EC / EU has kept peace in Europe for the past 50 years?
In Europe as a geographical term no.
In the EU countries yes.
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  #219  
Old 04.12.2014, 11:56
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Oh the horror.
Since when is Capitalism bad?
Really? Am I back at Greek university trying to hopelessly argue with the leftists?
I prefer Capitalism to pretty much all the alternatives I've heard about and I'm glad I was born in the capitalist side of the world.
Though to be honest, I like the European variation of Capitalism more than other versions.

Is this your problem with the EU? That it's capitalistic?
I have plenty of issues with the EU and I mean real issues, not vague remarks about it being capitalistic.

I was specifically answering DB who was asking why European citizens should have priority over non European citizens. Do you disagree that by making sure that we all move around freely and get to know each other we have drastically reduced the risk of a new war in Europe?

To our Ukrainian friends: my apologies but in this context Ukraine is not part of Europe. I sincerely hope your country becomes a full member in the next couple of decades.
You should read your earlier posts.

you're the one saying that the EU is some sort of peace block. Its about capitalism. No one said necessarily that capitalism in this context is a bad thing.

What are your issues with the EU?
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  #220  
Old 04.12.2014, 12:10
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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You should read your earlier posts.

you're the one saying that the EU is some sort of peace block. Its about capitalism. No one said necessarily that capitalism in this context is a bad thing.

What are your issues with the EU?
Not going to discuss my issues with how the EU is working in a thread about UK politics.
I don't understand though why peace and capitalism have to exclude each other.
The EU is a capitalistic block that brought peace to Europe. Do we agree on this?

Mr Cameron apparently is not so happy with it.
I'm wondering if his problem is that the EU is too capitalist!
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