Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 29.11.2014, 22:45
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

and then admits he can't really do it, EU has to do it.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-treaty-change

Politicians; akin to celebrity entertainers and comedians
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 29.11.2014, 22:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,066 Times in 3,279 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
and then admits he can't really do it, EU has to do it.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-treaty-change

Politicians; akin to celebrity entertainers and comedians
So if you're an immigrant from Commonwealth or any other place it's OK to receive social benefits/tax credits/etc, it's not OK when you're from E.U. Ah, I think I got that that right now.
Wonder what will come next.

Funny, only about 3 years ago there used to be other articles in the British media. Shall I look for the French, German ones..Nah...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-silence.html

Last edited by greenmount; 29.11.2014 at 23:17.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 29.11.2014, 23:49
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,065 Times in 1,054 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
and then admits he can't really do it, EU has to do it.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-treaty-change

Politicians; akin to celebrity entertainers and comedians
Well if he was really serious about it he could do it without need to negotiate with the EU. But what he actually wants is unrestricted access for trade, while limiting the free movement of labour and that is not going to fly because it would require treaty changes resulting in referenda in several countries (Denmark, France and Ireland at least, there may be more)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 30.11.2014, 00:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,066 Times in 3,279 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Well if he was really serious about it he could do it without need to negotiate with the EU. But what he actually wants is unrestricted access for trade, while limiting the free movement of labour and that is not going to fly because it would require treaty changes resulting in referenda in several countries (Denmark, France and Ireland at least, there may be more)
....and of course it's normal that "poorer" countries are giving up their natural resources for the "greater good", whereas they're accused of only "benefiting"...
It's funny how some countries that have oil (and gas) reserves which are exploited by *foreign companies do have the highest prices for petrol.

P.S. I'm deliriously happy that my country helps some Europeans have decent prices in petrol stations. To mention only this.

*(not because lack of technology or infrastructure to be very clear, this industry has 150 years history in Romania and we actually still "export" specialists in petroleum/gas exploitations)

Romanians are very patient people. Till one point.

Last edited by greenmount; 30.11.2014 at 00:21.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 30.11.2014, 13:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Britain could be forced to pay benefits to more migrants under EU plans.

EU says UK must dole out MORE benefits. Brussels takes legal action to force Britain to lift restrictions on migrants claiming handouts

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3KYBqNigm

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bigfujitsu for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 30.11.2014, 13:57
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 3,379
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,965 Times in 1,469 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

"UK targets East Europe immigrants"

What???

DC wants to stop people moving to the UK purely for benefits. As far as I know his plans would target all EU citizens the same, not just Eastern Europeans!

What he wants is a system similar to here in Switzerland… you don't get benefits until you've worked and contributed to the system! Seems fair to me!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 30.11.2014, 14:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 935
Groaned at 74 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 916 Times in 553 Posts
yacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputation
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Why is paying child benefit to children living abroad (let's cally it a child tax break) so contentious? The UK employers get a dirt chip employee, who needs no housing or other benefits, likely he will leave sooner or later so will not use subsidies when old or incapacitated to work further/unemployable. They get a modern-age slave basically.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 30.11.2014, 19:22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Why is paying child benefit to children living abroad (let's cally it a child tax break) so contentious? The UK employers get a dirt chip employee, who needs no housing or other benefits, likely he will leave sooner or later so will not use subsidies when old or incapacitated to work further/unemployable. They get a modern-age slave basically.

UK is home to 13,000 slaves: Home Office says number is four times higher than previously thought
  • The Home Office confirmed it underestimated the scale of the problem
  • The most common victims are from Romania, Poland, Albania and Nigeria

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3KZcX44IX
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,943
Groaned at 127 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 3,489 Times in 1,333 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Why is paying child benefit to children living abroad (let's cally it a child tax break) so contentious? The UK employers get a dirt chip employee, who needs no housing or other benefits, likely he will leave sooner or later so will not use subsidies when old or incapacitated to work further/unemployable. They get a modern-age slave basically.
I think the contention is more surrounding the fact that the combined cost to the state for housing and providing for immigrants who become unemployed or arrive with no intention of working is seen as unfair. The paying of child support to European based offspring causes discussion because as you say, the employee may be of a very low salary, sending all their proceeds back home, spending as little as possible here and yet claiming the full child benefit. The net result to the state is more is paid out in this case than is brought in in taxes (in some cases only of course).

In the end you can't get a proper figure on the finances. Some studies say there is a net benefit from immigration, others say there isn't becuase such surveys only take the working age ones in their surveys and don't include the extra load of public services.

In the end personally I think it's rather like switzerland ironically. The minarets vote was most like it for me. The Swiss people Did not want minarets on their horizon because they wished to keep the image of the Swiss village as it was. This is the overriding factor in the UK currently. It's not I don't think the money, or the payouts or that side if it, it's that with such a large amount of immigration so quickly the country is changing its cultural character and this is contentious. Whether you are for it or against it is a separate discussion, but from an impartial perspective, I think this is the real reason cameron is attempting to reduce immigration.

If you actually look at the welfare state cost by the way, old age pensions take by far the greatest amount.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,066 Times in 3,279 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
It's not I don't think the money, or the payouts or that side if it, it's that with such a large amount of immigration so quickly the country is changing its cultural character and this is contentious. Whether you are for it or against it is a separate discussion, but from an impartial perspective, I think this is the real reason cameron is attempting to reduce immigration.
t.
Can't stop laughing at that. Eastern Europeans will change the culture, not immigrants from places by far more distant culturally...
So it is all very rosy now, right?




As I said, unlike other posters who forgot where they came from, I think all people are equal. But if truth has to be said, I won't be shy.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:43
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,943
Groaned at 127 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 3,489 Times in 1,333 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Can't stop laughing at that. Eastern Europeans will change the culture, not immigrants from places by far more distant culturally...
So it is all very rosy now, right?
The sentence, in fact the whole posting, was aimed at all immigration, not just Eastern European. We are all very multicultural, living here as immigrants ourselves, wondering why everyone is so damned racist about this in the UK, but you miss that we are a small portion of society. In many many parts of England they have known very small numbers of immigration for their entire history and a sudden increase, which is what has happened roughly over the last 10 years, they were neither informed was going to take place or have had any experience of living in such a time of change. You have to see things through the eyes of everyone.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,066 Times in 3,279 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
The sentence, in fact the whole posting, was aimed at all immigration, not just Eastern European. We are all very multicultural, living here as immigrants ourselves, wondering why everyone is so damned racist about this in the UK, but you miss that we are a small portion of society. In many many parts of England they have known very small numbers of immigration for their entire history and a sudden increase, which is what has happened roughly over the last 10 years, they were neither informed was going to take place or have had any experience of living in such a time of change. You have to see things through the eyes of everyone.
Now that's the effect of fear mongering, of propaganda. Do you really think all people want to move to UK? Really? Yes, the temptation is big for many people now to try their luck, since there're no restrictions on the labour market and they're on equal footing with everyone, but...all of them?

Btw, we are very multicultural ourselves. Most of countries in Eastern Europe have different ethnical groups living under the same "roof", so to speak.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:49
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,065 Times in 1,054 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Britain could be forced to pay benefits to more migrants under EU plans.

EU says UK must dole out MORE benefits. Brussels takes legal action to force Britain to lift restrictions on migrants claiming handouts
The most basic requirement of the EU is that all citizens are treated equally, that is not happening in this case, so of course the EU will take action. The 'right-to-reside' test is fundamentally unfair and fully deserves to be challenged.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:50
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,377
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,601 Times in 12,094 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
Unlike many posters here, I think we're all equal, but when I hear such enormities...
I don't think we're all equal. Pakistani and Indian immigrants have much more in common with indigenous Brits than any continental Europeans, eastern or western.

The notion that an immigrant from Bulgaria or Poland has the same links with Britain that a Bangladeshi or Jamaican has is laughable.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 30.11.2014, 20:51
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,943
Groaned at 127 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 3,489 Times in 1,333 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Now that's the effect of fear mongering, of propaganda. Do you really think all people want to move to UK? Really? Yes, the temptation is big for many people now to try their luck, since there're no restrictions on the labour market and they're on equal footing with everyone, but...all of them?

Btw, we are very multicultural ourselves.
I don't quite understand your point, sorry. I'm not saying everyone wants to come to the UK ? I'm saying that in areas of England traditionally with low immigration, such as towns in some areas of the north or the south west of England, have seen a proportional rise in immigration quickly. I'm not sure how it's coming across as everyone wanting to come to England, but that wasn't teh intention.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 30.11.2014, 21:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,066 Times in 3,279 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
I don't think we're all equal. Pakistani and Indian immigrants have much more in common with indigenous Brits than any continental Europeans, eastern or western.

The notion that an immigrant from Bulgaria or Poland has the same links with Britain that a Bangladeshi or Jamaican has is laughable.
Yeah, I know your views DB. I can still sleep very well knowing I have no links to UK, erhm, except that our last great queen was of British descendent, ironically.

I do think we're equal, because we are part of the same Union now, you know, something akin to Commonwealth.
So, as far as I'm concerned UK could get out of E.U. tomorrow, but as long as they pretend to be a part of that thing, they should respect the rules. Simple.
That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 30.11.2014, 21:20
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,377
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,601 Times in 12,094 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
I do think we're equal, because we are part of the same Union now, you know, something akin to Commonwealth.
Nope. The EU is nothing like the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth is the product of several centuries of shared heritage, history and cultural exchange. The EU isn't.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 30.11.2014, 21:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 6,066 Times in 3,279 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Nope. The EU is nothing like the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth is the product of several centuries of shared heritage, history and cultural exchange. The EU isn't.
Ehrm, yes. European countries have existed completely ignoring each other.
Anyway, that's not the point.
As I said, E.U. is a project that is not fancied by everyone, and that is fine. I do hope that British people will be given a chance to get out of it, as it clearly has absolutely no relevance to them. It does have relevance for continental Europeans though, given our history.
So I think it's fair to conclude that E.U. has its opponents/enemies from within and from outside, and that's O.K.. We shouldn't agree upon everything.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 30.11.2014, 21:28
Swissish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Frequent Flier
Posts: 413
Groaned at 27 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 495 Times in 219 Posts
Swissish is considered knowledgeableSwissish is considered knowledgeableSwissish is considered knowledgeable
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
I am quite often in London and I was surprised by the number of foreigners in the service sector (hotel, restaurant, etc...). I hear more french in London than in Bern...and these are young french immigrants who decided to live in the UK.
...and Working in the service sector all contributing to the national good. Not there for welfare benefits
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 30.11.2014, 21:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,943
Groaned at 127 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 3,489 Times in 1,333 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Quote:
View Post
Ehrm, yes. European countries have existed completely ignoring each other.
Anyway, that's not the point.
As I said, E.U. is a project that is not fancied by everyone, and that is fine. I do hope that British people will be given a chance to get out of it, as it clearly has absolutely no relevance to them. It does have relevance for continental Europeans though, given our history.
So I think it's fair to conclude that E.U. has its opponents/enemies from within and from outside, and that's O.K.. We shouldn't agree upon everything.
It has economic relevance for the UK. However most importantly it has economic relevance for the rest of the eu. Britain is currently it's most successful economy. How many britians emigrated from the UK to Romania this year ? The thing is with Britain being so successful, it gets a net influx of migrants. Whether that's a bad thing, is another question.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ban, cameron, immigration, welfare




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Swiss government plans to limit the arrival of Southern Europe immigrants Steno Permits/visas/government 2 05.02.2013 20:30
Best english speaking around Basel Land for UK immigrants bookfans Family matters/health 19 30.03.2012 12:39
Immigrants are 30 percent more likely to start businesses than non-immigrants miss_bean International affairs/politics 1 17.07.2010 00:53
O2 UK Bolt on - My Europe Extra Pike TV/internet/telephone 2 29.10.2009 11:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0