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  #161  
Old 03.12.2014, 20:46
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Ukip needed a scapegoat and we seemed like the weakest group.
Europeans? Weakest?

Did I just enter the Mirror World?



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Old 03.12.2014, 20:55
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

I find racism to be a direct symptom of not having faith in one's gov or supervision. People feel unprotected. Some people urgently need to trust their gov and feel secure, protected. They might interpret open borders as there's all this threatening newness which probably isn't under control and will get worse. They tend to blame all on newcomers.

As per reality - who knows. But irrational fears often stem from feeling lack of security, whatever there is traditional and familiar disappearing.

In a world of fair chances, self esteem, confidence, support and cooperation - there's space for generosity, benevolence, good faith and open mind. It makes people independent, intelligent, resilient and resistant to populism (which only feeds off racism, discrimination, fears and other knee-jerk shortcuts).
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  #163  
Old 03.12.2014, 20:55
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Europeans? Weakest?
There are many things you have to tell us about politics and racism in UK. Until relatively recently I don't think it was against "Europeans".

I find it depressing that same arguments are used against other people, and even those who were directly, negatively affected by them would use them against the new wave.
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Old 03.12.2014, 21:05
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

I moved to Leicester at the same time as the so-called 'Ugandan Asians' - it was a very interesting time, that is for sure. But those immigrants certainly 'won the game' and Leicester would not be without them now, that it for sure- as they brought their expertise and hard-working ethics to town and made such a success of it. I could write many books on this fascinating subject!
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Old 03.12.2014, 21:06
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

Discrimination isn't picky.

It can be equally fierce and potent against people from across the planet because of different skin color, to other EU nationals due to lower socio-economical status to your neighbor for whistling different shower song.

I am against sanitizing, but will always mention discrimination becomes vile the min it enters a political agenda and pollutes the public campaign and official discourse.

Shortcuts are comfortable and convenient. Zero investment, maximum return.
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  #166  
Old 03.12.2014, 21:23
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Discrimination isn't picky.
Actually, I think you'll find... oh, never mind...
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  #167  
Old 03.12.2014, 21:27
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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Discrimination isn't picky.

It can be equally fierce and potent against people from across the planet because of different skin color, to other EU nationals due to lower socio-economical status to your neighbor for whistling different shower song.

I am against sanitizing, but will always mention discrimination becomes vile the min it enters a political agenda and pollutes the public campaign and official discourse.

Shortcuts are comfortable and convenient. Zero investment, maximum return.
We are living in interesting times, as the Chinese would say. Some choose to close behind fences, others to discover, mingle, learn from everywhere a little, enjoy all the chances. It's not easy, what we already "know" seems safer, predictable, linear. It takes some courage to look beyond the surface. Not all people have it, so fear, anxiety is understandable.

Btw, I haven't eaten sausages with cabbage stew for ages, I think I'm gonna cook some tomorrow.
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Old 03.12.2014, 21:30
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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There are many things you have to tell us about politics and racism in UK. Until relatively recently I don't think it was against "Europeans".
I was asked if people back home use silverware and plates for eating.

It was in Poulton-le-fylde and long time ago. But I did realize it was a genuine question so couldn't do a proper eye roll.

I miss Lancashire.
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Old 03.12.2014, 21:34
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I was asked if people back home use silverware and plates for eating.

It was in Poulton-le-fylde and long time ago. But I did realize it was a genuine question so couldn't do a proper eye roll.

I miss Lancashire.
Off topic. Micasa has some wonderful Bohemian cristal glasses at incredibly low prices (5 francs?). My mother would be outraged if I can find them at a low price.
But Ok, they seem low to me.
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  #170  
Old 03.12.2014, 21:38
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

I'm getting a bit lost here with all the different points. Can someone explain to me why limiting immigration into a country to only skilled people is racism ? If England said 'no black people' that would be racism. But only say 5000 skilled people from country x. Is that racism (I'm serious, genuine question), because that therefore means all the swiss permit based system, where there is an annual limit to permits is racism too isn't it ?
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  #171  
Old 03.12.2014, 21:40
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

alas, I think discrimination is picky.

How many times have you heard words to the effect ' he may be black but he's one of ours'?
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  #172  
Old 03.12.2014, 21:41
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I'm getting a bit lost here with all the different points. Can someone explain to me why limiting immigration into a country to only skilled people is racism ? If England said 'no black people' that would be racism. But only say 5000 skilled people from country x. Is that racism (I'm serious, genuine question), because that therefore means all the swiss permit based system, where there is an annual limit to permits is racism too isn't it ?
I don't think anyone is saying that.
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  #173  
Old 03.12.2014, 21:53
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

I'll be blunt here and tell you exactly what I think the point is: white Europeans simply can't stand the idea that some people don't think they're the bees' knees when it comes to immigration.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that any contributors to this thread are actually racist, but there is a deeply racist undertone to the idea that Europeans should have preferential treatment in other countries just because they're European. Sure, they've got a legal right - not that I recall ever getting a vote on it - but the idea that they might be equally or even - gasp! - less welcome in the United Kingdom than their darker skinned rivals from other continents appals them.

This attitude isn't unique to eastern Europeans, mind. I suspect most Europeans secretly feel this way.
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Old 03.12.2014, 21:56
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I don't think anyone is saying that.
157, 158, 159 and 160 ( I don't know how to use the multi quote thing sorry) are all closely tying the immigration policies to a person 'type' or race and using strong language such as bigot, racism etc. the important bit for me is that this mimics exactly the problem over the last 10 years, if anyone had even suggested there might be a problem with the British immigration policy there was an outcry of 'you racist bigoted thug, your just like the bnp!' so any meaningful analysis was left and left again and left again until we have what we have now. Cameron could be a bigoted thug who just happens to dislike Eastern European people for some reason we don't all know, or perhaps he can see there is a problem with an unrestricted immigration policy and (unless I am wrong) is trying to limit the type of immigrant into Britain as those who have the skills needed and not unskilled workers, rather than as switzerland does, put a hard limit on number of immigrants.
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Old 03.12.2014, 22:07
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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alas, I think discrimination is picky.

How many times have you heard words to the effect ' he may be black but he's one of ours'?
sort of like, "wäisch, hani di nöd gmeint...bisch ja scho en aborigine, gäll?"



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  #176  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:09
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I'll be blunt here and tell you exactly what I think the point is: white Europeans simply can't stand the idea that some people don't think they're the bees' knees when it comes to immigration.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that any contributors to this thread are actually racist, but there is a deeply racist undertone to the idea that Europeans should have preferential treatment in other countries just because they're European. Sure, they've got a legal right - not that I recall ever getting a vote on it - but the idea that they might be equally or even - gasp! - less welcome in the United Kingdom than their darker skinned rivals from other continents appals them.

This attitude isn't unique to eastern Europeans, mind. I suspect most Europeans secretly feel this way.
Phui, DB. Really? I think you really underestimate "Eastern-Europeans". I'd be delighted to translate for you the comments from online newspapers...believe me (or not, is your choice) they are way more elevated than those of DM readers. More self-critical, self-bashing, whatever.
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  #177  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:11
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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alas, I think discrimination is picky.

How many times have you heard words to the effect ' he may be black but he's one of ours'?
Of course it is. Aside of it actually being the extreme of pickiness, by nature. But the degree varies depending on cohesion in the group and belonging.

I think people's potential to tolerate is deplete-able.

It also probably scales up or down whether the prejudice is targeted against somebody foreign to the community or country or union...etc. I find quotas a cosmetic measure. And - skill based ranking...uhm. Castist. More power to those willing to pull off the risk to compete without a special skill in a tough, competitive market. It's quite often a commitment that wins and resilience, not a particular skill.
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Old 03.12.2014, 22:27
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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I'll be blunt here and tell you exactly what I think the point is: white Europeans simply can't stand the idea that some people don't think they're the bees' knees when it comes to immigration.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that any contributors to this thread are actually racist, but there is a deeply racist undertone to the idea that Europeans should have preferential treatment in other countries just because they're European. Sure, they've got a legal right - not that I recall ever getting a vote on it - but the idea that they might be equally or even - gasp! - less welcome in the United Kingdom than their darker skinned rivals from other continents appals them.

This attitude isn't unique to eastern Europeans, mind. I suspect most Europeans secretly feel this way.
It's not about racism IMHO.
It's about what Europe has achieved over the past 50 years. And that is peace. In the late 30's the Nazi government convinced the Germans to go kill other Europeans because they were the enemy.
The European Union has achieved that a big part of every country's population has friends in other countries and wouldn't be so easily convinced that killing them would solve their problems.
And in order to achieve this various initiatives played their role. The Erasmus exchange program (and other similar ones) did play a significant role, but also the fact that people can so easily move to another European country and spend a few years of their life there.

I understand that the UK has been the most reluctant country in this process. You somehow think that because you are an island you are different.
So now you want to rethink the free movement of workers.
You know what, I am 100% pro BREXIT and I hope David Cameron forms a coalition government with the UKIP in the next elections.
Not because I don't like the Brits, but because I'm tired of their whining.

For the rest of Europe, giving priority to an EU citizen over somebody from Africa, the Middle East or Asia is what will guarantee a peaceful future for Europe.
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  #179  
Old 03.12.2014, 22:33
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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It's not about racism IMHO.
It's about what Europe has achieved over the past 50 years. And that is peace. In the late 30's the Nazi government convinced the Germans to go kill other Europeans because they were the enemy.
The European Union has achieved that a big part of every country's population has friends in other countries and wouldn't be so easily convinced that killing them would solve their problems.
And in order to achieve this various initiatives played their role. The Erasmus exchange program (and other similar ones) did play a significant role, but also the fact that people can so easily move to another European country and spend a few years of their life there.

I understand that the UK has been the most reluctant country in this process. You somehow think that because you are an island you are different.
So now you want to rethink the free movement of workers.
You know what, I am 100% pro BREXIT and I hope David Cameron forms a coalition government with the UKIP in the next elections.
Not because I don't like the Brits, but because I'm tired of their whining.

For the rest of Europe, giving priority to an EU citizen over somebody from Africa, the Middle East or Asia is what will guarantee a peaceful future for Europe.
Save your breath, DB thinks we'll all kill beige skinned people in the street. I wonder who's the bigot here.
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Old 03.12.2014, 22:34
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Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants

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It's about what Europe has achieved over the past 50 years. And that is peace.






Peace, you say?
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