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  #201  
Old 21.01.2015, 23:54
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Possibly but what's formula one got to do with Hitler?
The NoW claimed Mosely had engaged in a sordid Nazi orgy which was later thrown out of court. Turns out he just likes having his head inspected for lice, thrashed and then barked at in German.
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  #202  
Old 21.01.2015, 23:57
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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The NoW claimed Mosely had engaged in a sordid Nazi orgy which was later thrown out of court. Turns out he just likes having his head inspected for lice, thrashed and then barked at in German.
Oh who doesn't.
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  #203  
Old 22.01.2015, 10:37
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Possibly but what's formula one got to do with Hitler?
The cars get trialled at Nürnburg.
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  #204  
Old 27.01.2015, 15:16
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

I was in Germany last weekend (in Freiburg) and had a bit of a laugh at some of the newspaper coverage of Pegida. Apparently Freiburg had stages an anti-Pegida march attended by 25,000 people. That's pretty impressive for a town of 200,000. And also one in which Pegida has not marched to date. So Pegida in Dresden is being criticised for being against militant Islam when they've never actually experienced it, but anti-Pegida folks are not being called out for the same.

The photographs showed protesters carring placards that didn't seem to have much to with Pegida, such as one for more tolerance (well, selective tolerance maybe), one about political asylum and a whole lot of other leftist and feminist topics that they seem to piggyback onto whatever demo they're at.

Then the article went on to summarise the speeches. A CDU guy made a speech in which he basically said that his son in law was a Nigerian (but negelcted to say if he was a Mulsim Nigerian or mention whether he was opposed to or in favour of Boko Haram, or what that had to do with Pegida either way) and that he was proud of the fact his granddaughters had brown skin. Not sure what he was trying to prove other than enjoying being applauded by lefties for once.

If this is the level of political discourse in Germany these days, I despair.
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  #205  
Old 27.01.2015, 15:31
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

You don't understand much of Germany (and the rest of Continental Europe btw.), do you?
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  #206  
Old 27.01.2015, 16:08
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

I also wonder if Germans understand much about Germany as well.
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  #207  
Old 27.01.2015, 17:13
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

What is missing in Gemany's political landscape is neither a Nazi party, nor a somehow "leftist",


but a liberal one, and maybe a conservative version of what Merkel ruined of the old right-wing of CDU.


Defining the Baden-Württemberg modern inheritance of the old Oeko-Movement "leftist" (and I overlook the Boko Haram crap mentioned above and that "Nürnburg" does not exist) is a sign of total misunderstanding.
BW is not leftist.
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  #208  
Old 28.01.2015, 04:09
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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but a liberal one, and maybe a conservative version of what Merkel ruined of the old right-wing of CDU.
There is a liberal party... they used to be part of ruling coalitions with some of the best politicians Germany had. But the problem is that a generation of Moellemanns and Westerwelles ruined them so completely that Sixt could run this ad after the last election ("got more seats than the liberals"):




Nuernburg does not exist - it's a joke made up out of Nuerburgring and Nuernberg... got it? F1? Nazi trials?...
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  #209  
Old 28.01.2015, 10:43
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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There is a liberal party... they used to be part of ruling coalitions with some of the best politicians Germany had. But the problem is that a generation of Moellemanns and Westerwelles ruined them so completely that Sixt could run this ad after the last election ("got more seats than the liberals"):




Nuernburg does not exist - it's a joke made up out of Nuerburgring and Nuernberg... got it? F1? Nazi trials?...
ha ha.

But seriously. It will be interesting to see if the FDP is going to make a comeback or if they're vanishing into history.

However, FDP or no, I would disagree that liberal voices and positions are not represented in Germany. You don't need to label yourself liberal to be liberal.
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  #210  
Old 28.01.2015, 18:51
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Looks like Pegida has effectively been torpedoes, and has imploded. Its leadership has been decimated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31018097

They had convoluted points, and I don't recall seeing a non-White face in the crowd. They would have had a stronger case had they included Muslims and non-Whites in their organization.
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  #211  
Old 28.01.2015, 22:49
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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...
Nuernburg does not exist - it's a joke made up out of Nuerburgring and Nuernberg... got it? F1? Nazi trials?...
Anyhow, it's total crap.
Alongside considering Pegida a real danger of Democracy or predicting that trash would have a political future.
Or claiming that a Nigerian should declare himself a non-supporter of Boko Haram (???).
Or stating that the "F" in FDP's last years used to be standing for "freiheitlich" or anything liberal. They said "Freiheit" but meant "Eigenverantwortung". Jasager and Neocons. Which is all but liberal. Klar wie Klossbrühe that they either were lying or too weak to contrast Merkel. Both meant they had to buzz off.
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  #212  
Old 28.01.2015, 23:01
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

My understanding of this march is that one is trying to deal extremism with extremism... Instead issue should be dealt with finding root cause of first and then fixing it.
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  #213  
Old 28.01.2015, 23:09
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Anyhow, it's total crap.
Alongside considering Pegida a real danger of Democracy or predicting that trash would have a political future.
Or claiming that a Nigerian should declare himself a non-supporter of Boko Haram (???).
Bless your cotton socks.
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  #214  
Old 29.01.2015, 00:30
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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They would have had a stronger case had they included Muslims and non-Whites in their organization.
And in other news, turkeys vote for Christmas

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Old 29.01.2015, 04:23
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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They had convoluted points, and I don't recall seeing a non-White face in the crowd. They would have had a stronger case had they included Muslims and non-Whites in their organization.
Jesus, that's the dumbest argument ever and we discussed it at the very beginning of the thread: the entire problem with PEGIDA is that there are no Muslims or "non-Whites" in Dresden. 2% Muslims in the province of Saxony, so there were more people demonstrating "against the islamisation" in Dresden than there are Muslims living there... and the vast majority of Muslims living in Germany are either Turkish or from the Balkans, so far from being as visibly different as say Pakistanis in England.

I know it's hard to get for Americans, but there are very very few foreigners living in Eastern Germany. All the immigrants even from European countries usually went to Germany for a job. That's why all the Turkish living in Germany are so concentrated in the Ruhrgebiet and major cities. There were no jobs in the East, so no immigration either. The demography tool of the province around Dresden does not even have anything on immigration as it simply is statistically a non-topic there - it is a political topic for some reason but the data is not enough to make any sensible maps...

On the Swiss equivalent immigration is ALWAYS the biggest topic and it makes great graphs to see the different waves of immigrants over time. All you can do in Saxony is look at the changes in the age distribution of the population: http://www.demografie.sachsen.de/mon...tml/atlas.html
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Old 29.01.2015, 12:59
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Pegida resonated beyond Dresden. It failed because it did not distinguish between race, immigration and extremism. Had the folks in Dresden been more aware of the difference, they would have been able to focus their message. But I guess a large nazi contingency defined the organization and its issues.
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Old 29.01.2015, 13:11
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Pegida resonated beyond Dresden. It failed because it did not distinguish between race, immigration and extremism.

That's because the organisers don't recognise a difference.


Islamophobia in Europe is - with some very rare exceptions - essentially racist. If Muslims weren't largely dusky coloured and exotic, there wouldn't be half the hysteria we're seeing at the moment.


It's an old, old story being replayed very tediously all over again. Snore.
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  #218  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:37
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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That's because the organisers don't recognise a difference.

Islamophobia in Europe is - with some very rare exceptions - essentially racist. If Muslims weren't largely dusky coloured and exotic, there wouldn't be half the hysteria we're seeing at the moment.

It's an old, old story being replayed very tediously all over again. Snore.
If Pegida was trying to draw attention to concerns about violent Islamic extremists, what they could not achieve after months of marching and tens of thousands, 3 gunmen in Paris achieved for them in a couple of days. Law enforcement can take it from there on. Pegida is no longer needed for that purpose. The rest of the Pegida issues are quite myopically stated, and seem to be motivated by hate anyway.
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Old 29.01.2015, 17:11
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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If Pegida was trying to draw attention to concerns about violent Islamic extremists, what they could not achieve after months of marching and tens of thousands, 3 gunmen in Paris achieved for them in a couple of days.
Fancy that! And we all thought that Fatima business was a miracle...
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  #220  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:38
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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If Pegida was trying to draw attention to concerns about violent Islamic extremists, what they could not achieve after months of marching and tens of thousands, 3 gunmen in Paris achieved for them in a couple of days. Law enforcement can take it from there on. Pegida is no longer needed for that purpose. The rest of the Pegida issues are quite myopically stated, and seem to be motivated by hate anyway.
Pegida is trying to raise awareness of the islamisation of Europe, which includes a lot more than just violent islamists.
The german people can see how their societies are being destroyed, how radicals are growing in number, how there are no-go zones developing now etc.
Pegida has in no way finished it's role because of the Charlie Hebdo attack. It needs to continue to be active and raise awareness so that this problem will be dealt with before it's too late.
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