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  #221  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:42
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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My understanding of this march is that one is trying to deal extremism with extremism... Instead issue should be dealt with finding root cause of first and then fixing it.
Well the root cause is obviously mass immigration. By protesting on the streets Pegida is raising awareness of this foreign element that is threatening German society. The only way this issue can be dealt with is by raising awareness until people force the government to stop mass immigration from the middle east.
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  #222  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:48
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Sorry, but this is really bullshit.


In Germany you have nothing like ghettos taken over by islamistic fundamentalism, by the simple reason that most of Germany's muslims are of Turkish origin, which have very little in common with North-african types of existing fundamentalism one could encouter in some parts of la banlieue parisienne.
And the Portion of Islam in Eastern Germany is close to 0. No wonder, if even the local flee that part of Germany, how could one expect that immigrants (i.e. most of whom are normal people) could settle there?


Btw. Difficult to speak about "mass immigration" in those regions. We cannot even talk about "immigration", but rather general abandon and emigration.
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  #223  
Old 30.01.2015, 16:23
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Germany has the largest Muslim population in Western Europe after France. Aprx. 3 - 3.5 Muslims live in Germany, so it's not like there's such a small Muslim population in Germany - why do they bother going on the streets.
"In Germany you have nothing like ghettos taken over by Islamic fundamentalism, by the simple reason that most of Germany's Muslims are of Turkish origin" Granted, most of Germany’s Muslims are of Turkish descent, but in no way does that mean that Germany has no Islamic fundamentalist ghettos. It most definitely has them.
It would only show a sign of laziness and unintelligence for Eastern Germany to ignore a problem, that's already IN Germany, until the problem is literally at their door. So good on Dresden for being proactive and showing their opposition to radical Islam.
I don't understand your point about locals fleeing a certain part of Germany.. can you rephrase it?
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  #224  
Old 31.01.2015, 01:16
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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I don't understand your point about locals fleeing a certain part of Germany.. can you rephrase it?
Have you ever actually been to Eastern Germany?
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  #225  
Old 01.02.2015, 00:02
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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No wonder, if even the local flee that part of Germany, how could one expect that immigrants (i.e. most of whom are normal people) could settle there?
Yeah, now I am curious ... what is this about German people in the eastern part of Germany "fleeing"!? Why are they "fleeing" and where to!?
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  #226  
Old 01.02.2015, 15:01
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Yeah, now I am curious ... what is this about German people in the eastern part of Germany "fleeing"!? Why are they "fleeing" and where to!?
They are leaving East Germany because it's rubbish and moving to places where there are jobs.

Do you have newspapers where you come from?
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  #227  
Old 01.02.2015, 17:34
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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They are leaving East Germany because it's rubbish
Is this supposed to sound legit!? ... Today's Headlines: "East Germans are moving away from Eastern Germany because it's rubbish"
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  #228  
Old 01.02.2015, 17:36
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Is this supposed to sound legit!? ... Today's Headlines: "East Germans are moving away from Eastern Germany because it's rubbish"
It's a fact.

I know Bern is backward, but surely you have some contact with the outside world?

Here's a pretty picture for you. Lots of colours.
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  #229  
Old 01.02.2015, 17:40
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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It's a fact.

I know Bern is backward, but surely you have some contact with the outside world?
No, apparently I don't ... despite the fact I am quite obviously connected to this Internetz thing ...

But since you have that "contact with the outside world" why don't you share a few snippets of your sources with us ...
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  #230  
Old 01.02.2015, 17:41
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No, apparently I don't ... despite the fact I am quite obviously connected to this Internetz thing ...

But since you have that "contact with the outside world" why don't you share a few snippets of your sources with us ...
Do your own homework, mate. Next you'll be telling us that Detroit is booming and Pripyat is Europe's answer to Las Vegas.
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  #231  
Old 01.02.2015, 17:52
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Do your own homework, mate. Next you'll be telling us that Detroit is booming and Pripyat is Europe's answer to Las Vegas.
No thanks. I tune into about 3 - 8 Swiss, German, UK and International news sources on any given day and have not seen anything about some kind of mass exodus of Eastern Germans "fleeing" Eastern Germany ... and I am not making the claim that they are ..
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  #232  
Old 01.02.2015, 17:53
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

If I might disturb the interesting conversation,

here's some (not very surprising) graphic material with regard to demographics of The Zone after '45:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Demokratische_Republik#mediaviewer/File:Bev_DDR.png

... and after 1991 (Dunkeldeutschland is on the top):


http://www.beauftragte-neue-laender.de/BNL/Navigation/DE/Themen/Gleichwertige_Lebensverhaeltnisse_schaffen/Demografie/Demografische_Situation/demografische_situation.html


Anybody else in need of white socks? ;P
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  #233  
Old 01.02.2015, 18:00
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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No thanks. I tune into about 3 - 8 Swiss, German, UK and International news sources on any given day and have not seen anything about some kind of mass exodus of Eastern Germans "fleeing" Eastern Germany ... and I am not making the claim that they are ..
Looks like you need to find better news sources, then, doesn't it?

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Old 01.02.2015, 21:34
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Looks like you need to find better news sources, then, doesn't it?

I would not exactly call tuning into blick.ch, 20min.ch, baz.ch, bernerzeitung.ch, nzz.ch, welt.de, spiegel.de, krone.at, and then other English news sources as equivalent to "cloud cuckooland" ...
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  #235  
Old 01.02.2015, 21:57
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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I would not exactly call tuning into blick.ch, 20min.ch, baz.ch, bernerzeitung.ch, nzz.ch, welt.de, spiegel.de, krone.at, and then other English news sources as equivalent to "cloud cuckooland" ...
You read all that, but you don't know that Eastern Germany is depopulating?

I've got a set of weights. It doesn't make me Arnold Schwarzenegger...
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  #236  
Old 01.02.2015, 22:11
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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You read all that, but you don't know that Eastern Germany is depopulating?

I've got a set of weights. It doesn't make me Arnold Schwarzenegger...
I tune into those news sources, yes. Do I read everything posted? - of course not! But this stuff about the Eastern German population "fleeing" from their homes is total nonsense anyhow, so of course it's not being reported on a regular basis as some kind of headline - obviously because, as Bucentaure was nice enough to share with us, this depopulation of the Easter part of Germany has been taking place over the course of past decades. There is no mass exodus and no "fleeing", but rather a gradual migration of Easter Germans from most, not all, of Eastern German regions to other places.

Thanks again to Bucentaure for the helpful info! I am now looking into the real reasons why people are moving, and if it's for a lack of work then I am interested to know why Eastern Germany has this problem and other parts of Germany don't - is it just because of the Soviet rule for those 39 years after WW2 - or are there other reason as well?

Last edited by EAB; 01.02.2015 at 22:49.
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  #237  
Old 01.02.2015, 22:48
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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I am not looking into the real reasons why people are moving, and if it's for a lack of work then I am interested to know why Eastern Germany has this problem and other parts of Germany don't - is it just because of the Soviet rule for those 39 years after WW2 - or are there other reason as well?
What do you think?
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  #238  
Old 02.02.2015, 04:52
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Thanks again to Bucentaure for the helpful info! I am now looking into the real reasons why people are moving, and if it's for a lack of work then I am interested to know why Eastern Germany has this problem and other parts of Germany don't - is it just because of the Soviet rule for those 39 years after WW2 - or are there other reason as well?
I don't think you need to follow any news channel very closely to know the bigger picture - especially if you live in Switzerland: That wave of German immigrants all newspapers were reporting on some years ago? It had two streams, well paid and highly educated Germans like myself who came to Zurich for the career outlook and the better tax system on the one side - low income immigration in service sectors on the other. All those Germans working in Zurich's bars? 90% Eastern German. Heck even the restaurant staff in wide parts of Eastern Switzerlands ski resorts were Eastern German...

40 years of communist rule left Eastern Germany in ruins. The western part pumped an incredible amount of money there for 20 years so all infrastructure from streets to trains work better there than in the west - but all it did was to create temporary construction jobs. The key problem is that there was a political decision to promise the Eastern Germans similar life quality right from the start without ever being competitive about it - so they are simply too expensive compared to Poland or Czech Republic.

Getting them seamless integrated into the German benefits system did not help - and ruined the social insurances in Germany. On the upside did the average Eastern German gain some 7 years of live since 1990! http://www.lgth.de/2013/12/lebenserw...ich-gestiegen/

I remember reading once an article which broke this down to how many minutes of Eastern German live a Euro spend on the build up bought...
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Old 02.02.2015, 17:53
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Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

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Pegida is trying to raise awareness of the islamisation of Europe, which includes a lot more than just violent islamists.
The german people can see how their societies are being destroyed, how radicals are growing in number, how there are no-go zones developing now etc.
Pegida has in no way finished it's role because of the Charlie Hebdo attack. It needs to continue to be active and raise awareness so that this problem will be dealt with before it's too late.
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Yeah, now I am curious ... what is this about German people in the eastern part of Germany "fleeing"!? Why are they "fleeing" and where to!?
Claims of victimization is one of the most self-negating and disempowering statements one can make. It usual precedes acts of atrocities. It is used by Islamists and Jihadists to justify the rage they express towards Jews, Christians and Atheists. It is used by others to justify some retribution they would like to inflict on others.

One problem I have with Pegida is that they are using this same language. They whine about the lost of their culture, and some imagined Islamization of Europe. All this as if it was the fault of Islamists. When all along the real problem is the weakness of their own identity in their own culture. Many in the West are ashamed of their own cultural identity. It is in vogue to ridicule expressions of nationalism and ethnicity as some backward devolution. "Those are backwards people in the boondocks. We, more sophisticated cosmopolitans have gone International and multi-cultural". Those truly concerned about this should not be pointing at some external cultural threat. What they really should be asking themselves is if there is something about their culture truly worth preserving. Then enunciate it, assert it, and preserve it. Otherwise, they are really only admitting the weakness of their own culture.
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  #240  
Old 03.02.2015, 14:46
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Or claiming that a Nigerian should declare himself a non-supporter of Boko Haram (???).
well, if somebody declares themselves an expert on Islam because they have a Nigerian relative, but don't go on to say anything about what that relative has taught them about Islam, sort of weakens the argument really - to the point of ... hey come on, do you really need this explaining to you? Might as well say "some of my best friends are Muslims" and stop there.
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