Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:00
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, but it's not immigration itself that bothers these chaps - it's Muslims, despite the fact that there are hardly any Muslims in Europe and German culture - especially in the part of Germany in which these chaps are demonstrating - is not threatened in any way by those Muslims.


As I said before: Islam is a barely significant presence on this continent, yet it is given an outrageous level of attention by both the whiners of the Left and the easily-startled of the Right.


It's daft. I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about.

I think a lot of this is media driven, peppered with examples of local incidents. Just in the past week; Sydney hostages, Pakistan assault, Al Qaeda bombing a school bus, Boko Haram beheading, ISIS splitting children in two, etc. What they are basically expressing is fear of the people entering into their country, and not knowing who or what they are about. I'm not sure "Put up and shut up!" is a satisfying or appropriate response. They need to level set understanding.

I don't think they should be treated like deliquent children. They should be reasoned with. German democracy would be better off for it. This was the country of Immanuel Kant, so I can't see why they can't apply reason in response.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:02
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,382
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,640 Times in 12,099 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post


That the Muslim population has doubled in the last 20 years? That despite 5% of the population being Muslim, 10% of all newborns in Germany are to Muslim parents? That white flight is taking place across many European cities?

Doubled from what to what? The population of English speakers in our town doubled this year when we had twins. The locals must be running scared!


And if 10% of newborns in Germany are Muslims, that must mean that... hang on, let me work this out... 90% of newborns in Germany are not Muslims!


So the typical scene in a German maternity hospital looks something like this:


Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Filthy brown Mohammedan devil worshipper
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child


Regarding white flight: people get rich and move out of town. This is nothing new. When the Somalis get rich, they'll move into the suburbs too - will we then talk of Black Flight?
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:03
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,382
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,640 Times in 12,099 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I think a lot of this is media driven, peppered with examples of local incidents. Just in the past week; Sydney hostages, Pakistan assault, Al Qaeda bombing a school bus, Boko Haram beheading, ISIS splitting children in two, etc.

Yeah, I remember the seventies. Then it was all Red Brigades and the IRA. Next week it'll be someone else - the Lapps have been suspiciously quiet for a while...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:07
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, I remember the seventies. Then it was all Red Brigades and the IRA. Next week it'll be someone else - the Lapps have been suspiciously quiet for a while...
Sure, this could very well just be part of the Zeitgeist fad. This decade, we have lunatic Islamists. 2020's may bring diabolical Chinese entrepreneurs, or something other. This whole thing may just fade away like a bad hairstyle. But it has to take its due course of digestion and pooping out.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:13
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,064
Groaned at 295 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,847 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Doubled from what to what? The population of English speakers in our town doubled this year when we had twins. The locals must be running scared!


And if 10% of newborns in Germany are Muslims, that must mean that... hang on, let me work this out... 90% of newborns in Germany are not Muslims!


So the typical scene in a German maternity hospital looks something like this:


Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Filthy brown Mohammedan devil worshipper
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child
Good Aryan child


Regarding white flight: people get rich and move out of town. This is nothing new. When the Somalis get rich, they'll move into the suburbs too - will we then talk of Black Flight?

5% of Population up from 2.5% 20 years ago. These 5% therefore have a birthrate of twice that of the rest of the population. In short, it's very noticeable, hence the increase in White Flight.

p.s. congratulations on the twins
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:17
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,598 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I am not Eastern German, so I probably have a rather strong bias... but since you asked:


I believe there is a whole bunch of reasons but the first one being ignorance - it's far easier to hate Muslims if you never really met one... hardly any Western German born after the 60s did grow up with not at least a couple of people from different cultures in their school. It's much harder to be racist when you grow up with Hakan sitting next to you and you know he is not that different from you...

A second reason is that they never had the same sort of open rehabilitation of the Nazi years we "enjoyed" in the West: The Russians wanted to build up the country asap after the war and installed a lot of former nazis in key positions who all turned into true communists in record time... after that did obviously nobody dare to speak out openly on what ...
Just my 2 cent worths here.

My friends in Thüringen say that Thüringen has now overtaken several West German Bundesländer including Niedersachsen in terms of pro capita GDP. The Niedersachsen bit appears to matter quite a lot as you hear it repeated a lot. Maybe some old rivalry being revived here? But be as it may, there is no doubt that the best in the East are already far ahead of the worst in the West. The gap is far more closed than many realise.

Whereas it is true that the Soviets reinstated former Nazis and put them in positions of power after they had agreed to become communists, this is a universal thing. It happens whenever there is a sudden regime change for the simple reason that competent leaders who understand the issues don't grow on trees. Maybe you could find a dedicated anti-nazi here or there, and the SED / DDR did make heroes out of such people in a big way (especially if they were communists), much more than the BRD did, but there weren't enough to fill all the positions, even if they had the knowledge and competences, which of course they didn't always have.

Furthermore, this was not a typical DDR thing. The post war BRD had lots of ex Nazis in positions of power. Even today, companies such as Hugo Boss and Krupp are having a hard time explaining the political leaning of their grandfathers. So no, I do not agree the BRD did a better job at taking ex Nazis out of the system than the DDR did. In fact in terms of the anti-nazi rhetorics and propaganda, the DDR was always one up on the BRD, with many DDResque terms and phrases slipping into West Germans political parlance. For example the use of the word "Faschismus" which was originally a DDR label invented to avod the using the S-word in Nazi. Try arguing with a younger West German today and explain that Naziism is not the same as fascimsm, or that the S-word was not just a decorative lable but that nazis were socialist in many respects, and you'll see in the utter denial how well the DDR's propaganda has taken root.

So I would say by and large, the anti Nazi wind in the DDR was if anything stronger than in the BRD. But the big difference is that the SED regime was overthrown, and with it there began a sort of blank sheet in which everything the old regime had said and done was if not outright wrong, to be questioned. And this included of course the anti Nazi rhetoric. This made it easier for revivalist ideas to spread among the population. Maybe had the reverse occurred, the BRD been overthrown and then annexed by the DDR, with the politcal philosophy, achievements and heritage of the BRD cast into total disrepute, the BRD would today be full of right-wing ideas.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #87  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:23
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,271
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,474 Times in 6,018 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
5% of Population up from 2.5% 20 years ago.
And what exactly is the problem with 5% of the population being Muslim? That's one out of 20... hardly a majority. If the Pegida folks are so concerned with birth rates could they do the patriotic thing and produce some more crusader babies, no?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #88  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:23
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,598 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I am sorry, but do you have ANY source on the popular support? The march was 10k people in a country of 80 Million. Pegida is a fringe movement of a fraction of a percent - the people showing up there are plain weird. Even a hooligan riot in Cologne this year got an attendance of 5k...

A satire show dressed up one of their staff as "Russia Today" journalist as the demonstrators believe that "the German mainstream media is full of lies"... but somehow seem to trust RT. See for yourself what sort of folks they have there - this clearly is not the mass movement you think it is.


come on, just because you find some idiots marching there, you cannot reject the validity of the entire movement. Go to some anti-nuclear march organized by the Greens and ask some flower ladies troll questions about homeopathy and you may get similarly funny footage.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:30
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,271
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,474 Times in 6,018 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Just my 2 cent worths here.

My friends in Thüringen say that Thüringen has now overtaken several West German Bundesländer including Niedersachsen in terms of pro capita GDP. The Niedersachsen bit appears to matter quite a lot as you hear it repeated a lot. Maybe some old rivalry being revived here?
It's not an old rivalry, but Niedersachsen is a "proper" state... compared to tiny states like Bremen, Hamburg or Saarland. Those have always been at the bottom of the statistics for simple reasons: It's pretty easy to be better off than Bremen since most cities have higher unemployment than rural areas. Anyway: So Thueringen can compete with low performing Western states now. And the point is? Pegida is in Saxony and if anything should Thueringen compare themselves with their neighbours... which happens to be Bavaria. But they are not in the same league and won't be any time soon.
__________________
There is a special place in Hull reserved for the guy who invented autocorrect.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:32
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,271
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,474 Times in 6,018 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
come on, just because you find some idiots marching there, you cannot reject the validity of the entire movement. Go to some anti-nuclear march organized by the Greens and ask some flower ladies troll questions about homeopathy and you may get similarly funny footage.
But... I tried to not show the idiots but the rather soft satire. If you want to see some real stuff:

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 17.12.2014, 11:56
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,598 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Die Zeit Online:
Jeder Zweite sympathisiert mit Pegida

Appraising these demonstrations based on subjective interpretation of the daily realities of Dresden citizens likely misses the essential undercurrents. It may be comforting for the moment to simply ignore these and crawl back to sleep, and catch a few more hours. But you don't want this pressure building up like a bad zit waiting to pop. It can be calmly cleared up sooner, rather than waiting for a louder pop that leaves an indelible mark.
Yes, but I don't think anything will happen immediately. As I said before, there are clear parallels between the situation in Germany today and that in the UK 10 or more years ago. I predict that a UKIP like force will emerge in Germany that will eat away at the right wing of the CDU, the FDP as well as the reactionary left while also utterly killing off the likes of the NPD. It will give the established parties a real headache. It might eventually evolve into a German version of SVP. German politicians are very good at assuming that what happens in other countries will never happen in Germany and that they can go back to sleep and it will all be over in the morning. To give them some credit, this has worked in the past. But their luck may be running out.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 17.12.2014, 12:01
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,598 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Regarding white flight: people get rich and move out of town. This is nothing new. When the Somalis get rich, they'll move into the suburbs too - will we then talk of Black Flight?
Um, white flight is a euphemism for middle-class flight. That's why people like Herman Cain are considered symbols of the white middle class. Sometimes terms evolve beyond their originally implied meaning.

By the time those Somalis will be part of the rich middle class they will be banging the drum about all these fresh immigrants. They may have to invent a new word for that, but the concept will be the same.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 17.12.2014, 12:02
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,572 Times in 1,083 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

spot on, thanks
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MidfieldGeneral for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 17.12.2014, 12:22
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but I don't think anything will happen immediately. As I said before, there are clear parallels between the situation in Germany today and that in the UK 10 or more years ago. I predict that a UKIP like force will emerge in Germany that will eat away at the right wing of the CDU, the FDP as well as the reactionary left while also utterly killing off the likes of the NPD. It will give the established parties a real headache. It might eventually evolve into a German version of SVP. German politicians are very good at assuming that what happens in other countries will never happen in Germany and that they can go back to sleep and it will all be over in the morning. To give them some credit, this has worked in the past. But their luck may be running out.
I agree. Politics is normally driven by dissatisfaction, and Germany is doing too well, so will not likely move too far quickly.

Pediga is not a party, just a single topic interest which is only gaining "Likes" from adjacent concerns, such as Eurosceptics and Nazis. It will likely whither away in limelight exposure, and end up as only an endorser of AfD. I think its objective is to just open an issue for conversation. Stifling that conversation will draw its supporters further to the right, and opening the conversation will draw them towards the center. It may or may not pull the center to the right. I'm sure the Left will have a response to Pediga shortly.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #95  
Old 17.12.2014, 12:42
Dack Rambo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,439
Groaned at 178 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 1,551 Times in 765 Posts
Dack Rambo has earned the respect of manyDack Rambo has earned the respect of manyDack Rambo has earned the respect of many
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
But... I tried to not show the idiots but the rather soft satire. If you want to see some real stuff:

do you have any examples of such satire from private television stations?
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 17.12.2014, 12:54
Dack Rambo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,439
Groaned at 178 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 1,551 Times in 765 Posts
Dack Rambo has earned the respect of manyDack Rambo has earned the respect of manyDack Rambo has earned the respect of many
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
That white flight is taking place across many European cities?
I think that gentrification is more common than white flight.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 17.12.2014, 13:13
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,598 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I think that gentrification is more common than white flight.
Gentrification may be limited.

The middle classes are rediscovering the virtues of art-deco townhouses and renovating them like crazy.

But once they run out of those, will 1950s concrete neighbourhoods ever have that appeal?

Some people are saying peak oil and such will drive up the costs of commuting and move the masses back into the cities while bringing decay and depopulation into the suburbs. But with fuel prices doing what they are right now, that scenario is becoming increasingly remote, at least within the next 30 years or so. So gentrified city appartments are hip for DINK types, but will your average two kids, two cars and a dog type family be in a hurry to trade their suburban utopia for the city?
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 17.12.2014, 13:17
FuriousRose's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: nearby the lake
Posts: 849
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 890 Times in 424 Posts
FuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
But does that not make it worse? If you're having to replace your own population with immigrants, then you reduce the ability to pass your own culture on. Germany has a massive aging population which needs to be cared for, this is could be another discussion entirely, but the result of this is that the proportion of young immigrants to young Germans is greater than that of the population as a whole. It's the young that will feel the effects the most...
I don't see why it'd make it worse. Are you saying the culture of that the immigrants bring along with them is inferior to that of German?
Sure, some people would like to keep their own cultural identity, even though this cultural identity is also the very result of some sort of cultural integration or assimilation in their history.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at FuriousRose for this post:
  #99  
Old 17.12.2014, 13:28
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,598 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I don't see why it'd make it worse. Are you saying the culture of that the immigrants bring along with them is inferior to that of German?
Sure, some people would like to keep their own cultural identity, even though this cultural identity is also the very result of some sort of cultural integration or assimilation in their history.
Shouldn't the people themselves be allowed to decide what they want their culture to be? I don't see anything irrational in being suspicious of certain types of change. Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be about, giving people a say in what they want their future to look like?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 17.12.2014, 13:41
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I don't see why it'd make it worse. Are you saying the culture of that the immigrants bring along with them is inferior to that of German?
Sure, some people would like to keep their own cultural identity, even though this cultural identity is also the very result of some sort of cultural integration or assimilation in their history.
These aren't issues of grading a culture, and it is vitriolic to suggest it is. These are questions of cultural compatibilities, and how to co-exist knowing full well that some beliefs and practices are in opposition to each other. What Germans are trying to figure out is if foreigners can be expected to adapt to German values, or will they insist on changing German values.

Should Germans allow the withholding of women's rights if the foreign culture practices it?
Would Germans be prohibited from exercising certain rights if it offends people of foreign cultures?

Some groundwork need to be clearly defined on how to behave when such conflicting issues arise. At the moment, there are no clear cut answers, hence it creates trepidations.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
europe, germany, immigration, islamisation, pegida




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss protest against tightening of asylum law The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 25.06.2012 12:34
Not Europe, Brits divided. And they are outside of decision making. Europe is united kashif International affairs/politics 97 06.01.2012 11:59
Vevey Marchés Folkloriques Blonaybear Commercial 1 08.07.2011 10:36
Hello from North of Europe :) Emacs Introductions 2 10.05.2010 11:41
The grounding of Europe BoZz Jokes/funnies 0 20.04.2010 07:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0