Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 18.12.2014, 18:59
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US/West engagement

Quote:
View Post
1. There has to be an acknowledgement that the problem has been partly created by US for its geopolitial gains. Taliban and its extremism was funded and armed by US to fight USSR in Afganisthan.

2. US should stop funding/arming terrorist outfits. Even today, US is supporting terrorists on Pakistan's Eastern border with India in order to get Pakistan's support for military operations on the Afgan border.

3. Economic snctions against Saudi Arabia untill it completely stops funding Wahabi terrorism.

4. Economic snactions against Pakistan until it stops terrorism. Pakistan is entirely dependent of foreign aid, it will crumble without it. International community should leverage this position.


I can't 100% agree the US created this problem. These groups already existed, and the US found an opportunity to use them against Russia. These groups behaved in this way before Pakistan was even formed. After Britain partitioned Pakistan from India, approx. 500,000 died in similar communal violence. The US did not create that hate and its violence.

In regards to partial admission, this is what Hillary meant with "You can't keep snakes in your backyard and expect them to only bite your neighbors." I do agree that the US needs to take more careful responsibility for how its actions encourage the violence in Pakistan.

But I don't know about your #2) allegation, which group it is, if it is true or hearsay.

#3) Economic sanction on SA would not work, as they make too much money on their own. Its government does not admit to the practices of its clerics, and I am not sure it is centrally responsible for them.

#4) I would be for this if it safeguards the nuclear weapons. I would be for buying, stealing, robbing or sabotaging them from Pakistan, just to prevent a holocaust in the Indian sub-continent.


If I go out for a drink with an alcoholic, it doesn't mean I create, condone or enable his alcoholism. I was just going out for a drink. But if knowing he drives drunk, fights and beats up his wife when he drinks, I really should not be drinking with him anymore, and I'm certainly not sending him a bottle of whiskey for Christmas.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 18.12.2014, 19:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 40
Groaned at 21 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 26 Posts
Masooma is considered knowledgeableMasooma is considered knowledgeableMasooma is considered knowledgeable
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

I grew up in Peshawar, studied in Army public school and my parents live on the same road that school was on. I have no words to express how I feel about the incident. I know some of the people who have lost their loved ones and its absolutely heartbreaking. Being a mother myself I cannot imagine what the parents must be going through.

As some of you are wondering about the current situation in Pakistan to be honest I have never taken interest in politics and I avoid the news as much as possible. On one side I see a lot of killings and sick people forcing their views on others and on the other side politicians and people who just do a lot of talking and nothing else. It makes me feel frustrated and helpless and I choose to stay away. But I do ask myself how and will it ever change? Lately we have had mass demonstrations and a political party called Tehreek e Insaaf, meaning movement of justice, organizing these demonstrations and shutting down entire cities asking the government to resign as it has done nothing to improve the situation and seems to have been involved in a lot of bogus developmental plans filling up their personal accounts and investing in properties abroad. They claim they will make the 'Naya (new) Pakistan'. How I wish it were true but unfortunately I dont see it coming. Why? Because as someone said above Pakistan is indeed in a state of identity crisis. We dont know who we are anymore. The answer is not simple and probably there is not one answer.

We have a very strategic and I would say unfortunate geographic location. From countries like China, India to the North and East to Afghanistan and Iran on the West. Then the very important passes and routes to Central Asia and having Russia near by doesn't help at all. We have Saudi Arabia pumping in money, financing madrasas and promoting the radical Wahhabi school of thought fueling sectarianism and aggression towards the Christian minorities. The mujahideen trained originally to combat USSR branched out and regrouped as Taliban settling in the federally administered tribal areas next to the Afghan border. Peshawar being in a very sensitive location has been a favourite spot of certain 'tourists' since the beginning. It's a complete mess. No one knows who is working for whom anymore. The people are divided on many issues. Pakistan is in a mess it not only has to deal with external problems but internal ones too and to be honest the biggest problem Pakistan faces today is hypocrisy. The problems today are because of its own mistakes and the unavoidable foreign interference.

Pakistan is a very very complicated case and it should be everyone's concern. Not only because it is a nuclear state but because the people carrying out these acts have nothing to do with religion. There are two types of people. those who have some motives power, money, etc. I dont know who funds them where they get their weapons from and which forces they are working for. and then those who are uneducated and know no better. They are fed with false information and made to believe certain things. I will never understand how someone can agree to blow himself up. money? revenge? I heard one suicide bomber who was caught said he was told that he was doing the people he was killing a huge favour by taking them straight to heaven. honestly? Either he was a psychotic or a real simpleton an idiot with no sense or logical reasoning. I think both types are equally dangerous. We and I mean we all in the world are today facing a real threat from a group of people who will stop at nothing to achieve their goal. they have no respect or value for human life and I personally see this not as a religious or regional problem rather a humanitarian crisis.

So what can we do about them? a group of people in Pakistan are asking for public execution of the 8000 or so prisoners belonging to the TTP and the government has lifted the ban on the death penalty. I personally am not sure. Until and unless we really go after them full scale and shut down the madrasas, revoke the blasphemy law and show zero tolerance towards any group supporting extremism I cant see it working.
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank Masooma for this useful post:
  #83  
Old 18.12.2014, 19:36
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 22
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Yoga has no particular reputation at present
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Masooma,
Your post is informative. Just one addition. Teherik e insaf and Imran khan have been quite vocal supporters of taliban as compared to other parties.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Yoga for this post:
  #84  
Old 18.12.2014, 19:52
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 40
Groaned at 21 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 26 Posts
Masooma is considered knowledgeableMasooma is considered knowledgeableMasooma is considered knowledgeable
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Im not sure if he supported them. Yes, he did want come to an agreement with them. They were conducting a lot of attacks and hundreds of people lost their lives in a number of blasts. I suppose he thought it was a practical way to stop that. He probably realizes now it was futile. He was and probably still is against drone attacks though.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 18.12.2014, 20:29
farhaneee's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 57
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 13 Posts
farhaneee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
Masooma,
Your post is informative. Just one addition. Teherik e insaf and Imran khan have been quite vocal supporters of taliban as compared to other parties.
Supporter? no, he was against military operation in north-west, that was also before Zarb-e-Azm started. He has been condemning taliban since the beginning, actually his government is paying the heaviest price in this conflict.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 18.12.2014, 21:38
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,092
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 9,661 Times in 4,067 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: innocent victims..?

Quote:
View Post
I watched some live footage. Father of one of the victims was crying out loudly...it will tarnaslate as follows.."O Alkah, why did they kill these children. They were our people, they were no Americans or Indians, they were our kids, why did you kill them ?"

So much for the innocent victims...
I'm curious... could you elaborate on what you mean by your statement?

I'm genuinely struggling to see your statement as anything other than this man might have deserved it/can't complain because while he minded his child being killed he wouldn't have minded if it was American or Indian children.

Last edited by Carlos R; 18.12.2014 at 22:15.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 18.12.2014, 22:28
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 22
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Yoga has no particular reputation at present
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

No, I mean that if this man does not change his attitude towards violence even after such a grave personal tragedy, then there is no hope that the things will change anytime soon. Not as long as these innocent victims continue thinking that it is ok for the taliban to kill non believers for the crime of being non believers.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 18.12.2014, 23:01
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
I am a Pakistani and the problem started when state started playing God and declared Ahmadis non Muslims. Giving in to the right wing islamic parties set the tenor and tone of what Zia did afterwards in 80's.
Quote:
View Post
The version of Islam, concepts of Jihad are not what truly represents Islam.
Pressurize govt to repeal Blasphemy laws and other laws which clash with human rights.
Quote:
View Post
...it will tarnaslate as follows.."O Alkah, why did they kill these children. They were our people, they were no Americans or Indians, they were our kids, why did you kill them ?"
Quote:
View Post
.... promoting the radical Wahhabi school of thought fueling sectarianism and aggression towards the Christian minorities.

...Until and unless we really go after them full scale and shut down the madrasas, revoke the blasphemy law and show zero tolerance towards any group supporting extremism I cant see it working.
Quote:
View Post
Not as long as these innocent victims continue thinking that it is ok for the taliban to kill non believers for the crime of being non believers.

Obviously and clearly, you do admit and acknowledge that the main driver of the violence is this 'religion' they practice. You, as a Muslim, or someone that has knowledge and experience of Islam, can say this is not the Islam you know and practice. Nobody can refute you on that, and I certainly can't refute you if you say so. That would not be my place.

Nevertheless, there is this thing they believe and practice, whatever we might call it. And you clearly acknowledge it is equally and perhaps more deeply offensive to you. I'd like to get your thoughts from a Muslim perspective, and advise really, on how you perceive this, how you deal with it, how you think it should be dealt with, and how you think non-Muslims should perceive and react to it. On the one hand, nobody really wants to offend. On the other, when you see something so deeply wrong, you have to speak truthfully about it.

What are your thoughts on how Westerners have reacted to this so far? For example; the culturally sensitive ones, the average ones, and even the ignorant ones? How do you think they should speak out, or not speak out?
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 19.12.2014, 12:41
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 228
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 241 Times in 107 Posts
fareehasharafat has earned the respect of manyfareehasharafat has earned the respect of manyfareehasharafat has earned the respect of many
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

When the state declared a community non Muslim a sort of standing was given to these Mullah who had very little public support. Zia took the matter to a whole new level. The following generation of leaders, both within the army and beyond, became even bolder. Why not just decentralize the whole business of trespassing on God’s territory, they thought. Thus you no longer had to head the parliament, or be a General to decide “god’s will”. Anyone with the right length of beard could do it. This is what is happening now.

Phos coming back to ur question, I would just write a small text from this link (I belong to Ahmadiyya Muslim Community) which says: (it is at least 50 year old text still relevant today.)

The world at large regards Islam as a barbaric religion, and the Prophet of Islam as a savage militarist monarch. Have they found anything in the life of the Holy Prophet which warrants such a description, anything against the canons of piety and virtue? No. Muslims themselves by their deeds have prejudiced the world at large against Islam, so that it is no longer very easy to make them take a different view. Among the wrongs done to the Holy Prophet is the wrong which Muslims themselves have done to him by misrepresenting the Holy Prophet by holding up a wrong image of him before others. The Holy Prophet was an embodiment of compassion and forgiveness. He did not want to harm even the meanest of God's creatures. Yet he has been described in such a way as to repel people and to prejudice their minds against him.

http://www.alislam.org/jihad/ahmadisbelieve.html
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fareehasharafat for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 19.12.2014, 14:14
FuriousRose's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: nearby the lake
Posts: 849
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 890 Times in 424 Posts
FuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
When the state declared a community non Muslim a sort of standing was given to these Mullah who had very little public support. Zia took the matter to a whole new level. The following generation of leaders, both within the army and beyond, became even bolder. Why not just decentralize the whole business of trespassing on God’s territory, they thought. Thus you no longer had to head the parliament, or be a General to decide “god’s will”. Anyone with the right length of beard could do it. This is what is happening now.

Phos coming back to ur question, I would just write a small text from this link (I belong to Ahmadiyya Muslim Community) which says: (it is at least 50 year old text still relevant today.)

The world at large regards Islam as a barbaric religion, and the Prophet of Islam as a savage militarist monarch. Have they found anything in the life of the Holy Prophet which warrants such a description, anything against the canons of piety and virtue? No. Muslims themselves by their deeds have prejudiced the world at large against Islam, so that it is no longer very easy to make them take a different view. Among the wrongs done to the Holy Prophet is the wrong which Muslims themselves have done to him by misrepresenting the Holy Prophet by holding up a wrong image of him before others. The Holy Prophet was an embodiment of compassion and forgiveness. He did not want to harm even the meanest of God's creatures. Yet he has been described in such a way as to repel people and to prejudice their minds against him.

http://www.alislam.org/jihad/ahmadisbelieve.html

Just wanna share a thought-provoking blog post:
No Apology
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank FuriousRose for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 19.12.2014, 20:47
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,092
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 9,661 Times in 4,067 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
No, I mean that if this man does not change his attitude towards violence even after such a grave personal tragedy, then there is no hope that the things will change anytime soon. Not as long as these innocent victims continue thinking that it is ok for the taliban to kill non believers for the crime of being non believers.
How on earth did you deduce that from that short quote of a grieving father!?! You've made several leaps and assumptions clearly based on your own prejudices. Take it at face value as someone who cannot understand why his child was targeted. You can be for or against killing Americans and Indians, yet still not understand why your child has been killed. Or you could just be in shock or or or...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 19.12.2014, 23:10
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
How on earth did you deduce that from that short quote of a grieving father!?! You've made several leaps and assumptions clearly based on your own prejudices. Take it at face value as someone who cannot understand why his child was targeted. You can be for or against killing Americans and Indians, yet still not understand why your child has been killed. Or you could just be in shock or or or...

What matters is that they now killed BELIEVERS. And that they now killed kids of high ranking officers. Interesting will be to see how the revenge will take place
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 19.12.2014, 23:27
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 228
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 241 Times in 107 Posts
fareehasharafat has earned the respect of manyfareehasharafat has earned the respect of manyfareehasharafat has earned the respect of many
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

In certain ways I feel more connected to Indians who were actually grieving with us after this incident. The schools observed a minute of silence and civil society and artists were mourning this senseless killings. From middle east the silence was deafening.
India has always been protrayed as our enemy which is not true. the whole military narrative is standing on these pillars. The associated 'strategic assets' have been used previously to thaw any attempts at peace. The narrative has been engraved in peoples mind for years. Battle between believers and disbelievers.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fareehasharafat for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 20.12.2014, 00:53
Castro's Avatar
ŕ la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,772
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
What matters is that they now killed BELIEVERS. And that they now killed kids of high ranking officers. Interesting will be to see how the revenge will take place
For you perhaps, but not for the further innocent victims who will be slaughtered in the ensuing tit for tat violence. Perhaps the best thing the military can now do is end their ambiguous relationship with the Taliban, work on cutting off foreign funding, secure the porous borders and boost their intelligence activities.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 20.12.2014, 01:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 40
Groaned at 21 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 26 Posts
Masooma is considered knowledgeableMasooma is considered knowledgeableMasooma is considered knowledgeable
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
Obviously and clearly, you do admit and acknowledge that the main driver of the violence is this 'religion' they practice. You, as a Muslim, or someone that has knowledge and experience of Islam, can say this is not the Islam you know and practice. Nobody can refute you on that, and I certainly can't refute you if you say so. That would not be my place.

Nevertheless, there is this thing they believe and practice, whatever we might call it. And you clearly acknowledge it is equally and perhaps more deeply offensive to you. I'd like to get your thoughts from a Muslim perspective, and advise really, on how you perceive this, how you deal with it, how you think it should be dealt with, and how you think non-Muslims should perceive and react to it. On the one hand, nobody really wants to offend. On the other, when you see something so deeply wrong, you have to speak truthfully about it.

I would still say that it doesn't have to do with religion. What happened was that Islam was put to use for political agendas. To understand the current situation one would have to have considerable knowledge of the history of Islam and certain movements that came into being. Wahhabism started as a revivalist movement by an eighteenth century preacher and scholar, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703–1792). Abd al-Wahab formed a pact with a local leader Muhammad bin Saud offering political obedience and promising that protection and propagation of the Wahhabi movement, would mean "power and glory". The house of ibn Saud maintained its politico- religious alliance with the Wahhabi sect over the next 150 years, through to its eventual proclamation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 1932, and then afterwards, on into modern times. Today Mohammed bin Abd Al-Wahhab's teachings are state-sponsored and the dominant form of Islam in 21st century Saudi Arabia (SA). SA in order to maintain its supremacy and power started funding madrases and teaching their version of Islam. Now the people who visited these madrases belonged to poor families who were unable to support their children. They were/are uneducated, could not understand Arabic (although they could read the Quran) and had no access to any other credible sources of information about their religion. Even today it is common practice that before elections political parties go and pay the Maulvis heading the mosques and madrases to twist the Quranic verses in their favour so the lower (economic) class of Pakistan who believe these people end up voting for them.

In December 1979, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Out of fear of invasion Pakistan decided to involve itself in the proxy war between USA and USSR. Shortly thereafter, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, a Muslim Brotherhood cleric with ties to Saudi religious institutions, issued a fatwa declaring defensive jihad in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union a personal (or individual) obligation for all Muslims. By 1989, Soviet troops had withdrawn and the USA left the region. We were left with mujahideen who then regrouped and emerged as taliban but were much more extreme than their Saudi sponsors.

The word Talib literally means 'seeker of knowledge' . What is going on in the name of jihad are mere power politics. Anyone who sports a beard and turban is eligible to enlist as a talib irrespective of his religious background. Ironically, while the Taliban are everybody’s enemy, their presence seems to serve everybody’s interest. Indian and Israeli interest is to subdue Pakistan, Russian interest is to see its arch rival of the past challenged, and Saudi interest is to see its ideology established. Even the military establishment has its vested interest in the Taliban. It appears therefore that apart from some genuinely inspired religious radicals, what goes by the name of Taliban is now a hotchpotch of mercenaries.

There are some scholars who are working actively to counteract the wahabi school of thought but I must admit that they are slowly growing in numbers. I cannot expect much from those who choose to remain ignorant and there are plenty of those everywhere. But those who are culturally sensitive should understand that there are around 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and it really isn't fair when one person/a group or a few hundred people do something and we all are termed as extremists. After all there are a lot of non muslims who carry out acts of violence, murder, rape, theft even massacres but one doesn't see them being reported or projected on the news channels as christians, jews or hindus murderers etc. A knife can be used by a murderer to kill someone where as the same knife when used by a surgeon can save someones life. But we cannot blame the knife rather the person who is handling it. Every one is responsible for their own actions.

I have come across some downright outrageous point of views of people calling for all the people in the middle east to be bombed to death to people in Australia offering to ride with any muslim feeling unsafe while going to work wearing a head scarf. Its heart warming to know that some people actually understand.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Masooma for this useful post:
  #96  
Old 20.12.2014, 03:16
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
For you perhaps, but not for the further innocent victims who will be slaughtered in the ensuing tit for tat violence. Perhaps the best thing the military can now do is end their ambiguous relationship with the Taliban, work on cutting off foreign funding, secure the porous borders and boost their intelligence activities.

First of all there will be a bloody revenge Action which indeed will cause the death of thousands of "collateral damage" but for the rest, the future will tell what will be will be
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 24.12.2014, 18:52
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 228
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 241 Times in 107 Posts
fareehasharafat has earned the respect of manyfareehasharafat has earned the respect of manyfareehasharafat has earned the respect of many
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Hundreds Of Pakistani Santas Marched In Defiance Of The Taliban

Members of Karachi’s Christian community transformed their Yuletide celebrations into a remembrance for the schoolchildren murdered last week.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/hayesbrown/k...le#.efyA2J9ja7
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 25.12.2014, 10:35
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US/West engagement

Quote:
View Post
I can't 100% agree the US created this problem. These groups already existed, and the US found an opportunity to use them against Russia. These groups behaved in this way before Pakistan was even formed. After Britain partitioned Pakistan from India, approx. 500,000 died in similar communal violence. The US did not create that hate and its violence.

In regards to partial admission, this is what Hillary meant with "You can't keep snakes in your backyard and expect them to only bite your neighbors." I do agree that the US needs to take more careful responsibility for how its actions encourage the violence in Pakistan.

But I don't know about your #2) allegation, which group it is, if it is true or hearsay.

#3) Economic sanction on SA would not work, as they make too much money on their own. Its government does not admit to the practices of its clerics, and I am not sure it is centrally responsible for them.

#4) I would be for this if it safeguards the nuclear weapons. I would be for buying, stealing, robbing or sabotaging them from Pakistan, just to prevent a holocaust in the Indian sub-continent.


If I go out for a drink with an alcoholic, it doesn't mean I create, condone or enable his alcoholism. I was just going out for a drink. But if knowing he drives drunk, fights and beats up his wife when he drinks, I really should not be drinking with him anymore, and I'm certainly not sending him a bottle of whiskey for Christmas.

Thanks

> It is not that the USA caused or created the problem, it is that the USA reacted wrongly and badly
> Britain did NOT partition British India
Pakistan (the letters of Pakistan standing for its major provinces in 1948, K for example for Kashmir) .
Pakistan was formed by Mohammed Ali Jinnah Khan (contemporary and acquaintance of Mahatma Ghandi) out of British India, and the Brits approved, while Mahatma Ghandi opposed.
> The role of the USA in British India was rather limited
> The Taliban problem is a Pakistani-Afghan problem. The Pakistani military secret service, in conjunction with the CIA and a bored Saudi business tycoon plus Gulbuddin Hekmatyar built up the Muslim Students Union of Afghanistan into what became the Taliban movement. The movement in the meantime vanished but the various anti Western movements in Afghanistan by the western press are still described by that term.
> and the role of the USSR was NOT an invasion, but a Military Intervention for and on request of the government of Afghanistan. Sure, Alexej Nikoleyevich Kossygin and others opposed the venture, regarding it as a hopeless case, and a recipe for disaster, but to no avail
> Difficult to say which one of those movements now attacked the Pakistani armed forces
> Again, there is no hint and no proof that actions of the USA did "encourage" anything in this regard ... What Hillary C. meant is that the Pakistani for too long supported the Taliban crowd until the snake attacked its backer
> I do NOT believe that the KSA supported any party in the Taliban crowd to attack Pakistan, as the KSA needs Pakistan in its long standing conflict with Iran
> The clerics of the Wahhabi movement, dominant in the Nedjd (Dammam, Riyadh, Halil) not only are the powerhouse of the Sa'ud Dynasty, the Council of the Imams also is a kind of parliament which dominates the lawmaking and the judiciary and also daily politics in the KSA. It also determines who of the Royal Princes becomes King, Vice King, Defence Minister and Commander of the Royal National Guard (which includes combat airplanes, tanks and artillery)
> While the Sudairy clan (out of one of the wifes of King Abdul Aziz as-Sa'ud) just comprises about a hundred princes, the dynasty comprises of about 7000 royal Princes. Some of them are NOT in politics but in the economy, quite successfully in fact and moving the country forward. But many a Business Tycoon supports his personal cronies, be it for Business reasons or be it for personal likings
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 26.12.2014, 21:33
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 22
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Yoga has no particular reputation at present
America's $1bn Christmas Gift to Good Terrorists...

http://www.timesofindia.com/world/pa...w/45653941.cms
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 26.12.2014, 23:41
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Taliban kill over 120 in Pakistan

Quote:
View Post
The world at large regards Islam as a barbaric religion, and the Prophet of Islam as a savage militarist monarch. Have they found anything in the life of the Holy Prophet which warrants such a description, anything against the canons of piety and virtue? No. Muslims themselves by their deeds have prejudiced the world at large against Islam, so that it is no longer very easy to make them take a different view. Among the wrongs done to the Holy Prophet is the wrong which Muslims themselves have done to him by misrepresenting the Holy Prophet by holding up a wrong image of him before others. The Holy Prophet was an embodiment of compassion and forgiveness. He did not want to harm even the meanest of God's creatures. Yet he has been described in such a way as to repel people and to prejudice their minds against him.

http://www.alislam.org/jihad/ahmadisbelieve.html
Quote:
View Post
There are some scholars who are working actively to counteract the wahabi school of thought but I must admit that they are slowly growing in numbers. I cannot expect much from those who choose to remain ignorant and there are plenty of those everywhere. But those who are culturally sensitive should understand that there are around 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and it really isn't fair when one person/a group or a few hundred people do something and we all are termed as extremists. After all there are a lot of non muslims who carry out acts of violence, murder, rape, theft even massacres but one doesn't see them being reported or projected on the news channels as christians, jews or hindus murderers etc. A knife can be used by a murderer to kill someone where as the same knife when used by a surgeon can save someones life. But we cannot blame the knife rather the person who is handling it. Every one is responsible for their own actions.

I have come across some downright outrageous point of views of people calling for all the people in the middle east to be bombed to death to people in Australia offering to ride with any muslim feeling unsafe while going to work wearing a head scarf. Its heart warming to know that some people actually understand.
So the Pakistani Taliban spokesman released a statement that the Peshawar massacre was in complete accordance with Islam, citing where Mohammed killed the Jewish tribe in Banu Qurayza, sparing pre-pubescent children while killing the others. He said those who disagree can refer to Sahih Bukhari, volume 5, Hadith 148.

I've read the Quran, and see the major plot line is the establishment of a Muslim state. This plotline appears to be the same blueprint the Taliban, al Qaeda and ISIS is working from. So since they provide scriptural basis for their actions, in what ways are they not Islamic? I hear what you are saying - that this is not the same perspective you have come to understand Islam, and this offends your sensibilities. But what is the scriptural basis of your refutation of these group's tactics? What verses and teaching would you provide to refute their actions?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
massacre, pakistan, taliban




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US kill over 1147 people with drones... to get to 41 terrorists. Treverus International affairs/politics 147 07.12.2014 12:01
People power in Pakistan Castro International affairs/politics 2 16.09.2014 17:05
Taliban release Swiss hostages: army The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 15.03.2012 09:40
Help Pakistan Flood Victims - over 13 million people affected fareehasharafat International affairs/politics 7 23.08.2010 21:44
For sale Satellite Dish 120'120 with LNBF christer Items for sale 0 17.03.2010 17:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0