Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:03
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,520
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,534 Times in 4,676 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
To their Islamic state of choice. If they are not happy in France, why they stay there?
And why would any Islamic state accept dangerous fanatics? This is not a practical proposal.

Reminds me of the Swiss proposal to send foreign prisoners home to serve their sentences.
Most countries refused to accept them, those that did released them from jail in days
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #182  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:04
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
To their Islamic state of choice. If they are not happy in France, why they stay there?
This is part of the silliness of Pediga, FN, Right-Wingers and others who hark on immigration. These are no longer immigrants. They are naturalized Europeans. It's too late for that kind of silly talk. One thing we can try to avoid now is a repeat of Kristallnacht.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #183  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:06
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,520
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,534 Times in 4,676 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
its pretty easy to radicalise someone when you're killing there 'brother'
So how many radical Christians have been generated by the mass murders of Christians in Nigeria, Iraq, Egypt, &&&&&
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #184  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
To their Islamic state of choice. If they are not happy in France, why they stay there?
Easy peasy, innit? Will solve all indeed bravo.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #185  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:07
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 294 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 5,150 Times in 1,843 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
the first iraq war?

who elses fault is it?? 'we' armed them, 'we' trained them, 'we' are quite happy to let them, nay, encourage them, to fight amongst themselves, 'we' protect the ones in favour on any given day, and 'we' screw them if they dare to say no to there western masters.
There was no invasion in the first Iraq war. Kuwait (an equally awful despotic regime) was invaded by Iraq and a coalition was formed to expel them.

Arabs will always fight among themselves, they don't need our help to do that, have you never seen Lawrence of Arabia? There's over 350 million of them, all speaking the same language. They could be a superpower if they wanted, but they never will because they're held back by ludicrous religion and an ingrained mistrust and jealousy of one another.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:09
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,148
Groaned at 309 Times in 249 Posts
Thanked 9,506 Times in 3,865 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
So how many radical Christians have been generated by the mass murders of Christians in Nigeria, Iraq, Egypt, &&&&&

wow, just wow

not sure if you're being serious, so I'll leave it there
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:11
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,770
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
To their Islamic state of choice. If they are not happy in France, why they stay there?
Err... I'll take Dubai please
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #188  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:20
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Isolating muslims will only make it worse, integration and mutual respect is a good start
Unfortunately, this not something you can close your eyes and wish into being. Nor is it something you can compel people to do against their sentiments. What you will not see broadcast in headlines are the private decisions people make in light of this situation. What you will likely to see from this trend is an increase in ghettoization.

In France, these are called ZUS (Zones Urbaines Sensibles). Euphemism for "No-Go Zones". The Police know of these. 751 of them: http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #189  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
going to syria isn't a crime.
no, but at present it is neither a particular sign of intelligence.



the real problem here is, and has always been, a local problem. stop participating in the exploitation of these people by their local regimes, and they will stop exporting their barbarism to the west. these young men who killed those poor souls yesterday in Paris likely did not emigrate to France because they wanted to be "French", they emigrated to France because living wherever they had lived previously sucked.

I do think that the debate regarding immigration in Europe is an important one, however, just as it is in the US. European nations are under no obligation - legal, moral or otherwise - to accept immigrants they do not want and whose presence in the country is not viewed as a net positive.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #190  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:38
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,520
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,534 Times in 4,676 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
its pretty easy to radicalise someone when you're killing there 'brother'
Well they also killed their own brother. One of the two policemen shot at the site was a practicing Muslim.
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:43
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,596 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
This is a bit like asking a car mechanic to help with a dental problem.

For me, the most sensible take so far is the one proposed by Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi on the day before the attack: Egypt's President calls for a 'religious revolution'

I think Muslims need to define what Islam is, and communicate it.
Asking Muslims to define what Islam is probably like asking Christians to define what Christianity is. You're opening the floor for an endless debate which may be of interest to theologians but probably doesn't say much to the rest of us.

And even if you do get a definition, religious freedom means you can neither expect nor force anybody to keep to that definition.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #192  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:43
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,770
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Well they also killed their own brother. One of the two policemen shot at the site was a practicing Muslim.
And the other was a proof-reader at the magazine.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #193  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:46
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,403
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,596 Times in 6,210 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
This is part of the silliness of Pediga, FN, Right-Wingers and others who hark on immigration. These are no longer immigrants. They are naturalized Europeans. It's too late for that kind of silly talk. One thing we can try to avoid now is a repeat of Kristallnacht.
People like Louis Farrakhan are still talking about some form of segregation. And the ancestors of most African Americans have been on the North American continent generations before many White Americans came. So the time you've spent somewhere doesn't provide immunity to debates on being sent somewhere else, sometimes even initaited by people of your own race or group.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #194  
Old 08.01.2015, 16:56
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,770
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Hopefully won't be long before they catch these animals

Charlie Hebdo attack: Suspects 'rob service station'

The two main suspects in the Islamist attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris are said to have robbed a service station in the north of France.

They stole food and petrol, firing shots as they struck at the roadside stop near Villers-Cotterets in the Aisne region, French media report.

France has observed a minute's silence for the 12 people killed at the office of the satirical magazine.

Earlier in the day, a gunman shot dead a policewoman south of Paris.

A second person was seriously injured in the attack in Montrouge, after which the gunman fled.

It is unclear if the attack is related to the pursuit of prime suspects Cherif and Said Kouachi.

According to the manager of the service station that was robbed on the RN2 road in Aisne at about 10:30 (09:30 GMT), the attackers fit the description of the two men, and were heavily armed with Kalashnikovs and rocket-propelled grenade launchers.

They are said to have driven off in the direction of Paris in a Renault Clio car, apparently the same vehicle hijacked in Paris soon after the Charlie Hebdo attack.

According to French commercial channel BFMTV, police are monitoring all of the main entry roads into the capital.

Source
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #195  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:00
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Asking Muslims to define what Islam is probably like asking Christians to define what Christianity is. You're opening the floor for an endless debate which may be of interest to theologians but probably doesn't say much to the rest of us.

And even if you do get a definition, religious freedom means you can neither expect nor force anybody to keep to that definition.

So when events like these occur, politicians and Muslims state it has nothing to do with Islam and the perpetrators are not Muslims. On what grounds are these statements made, and who actually believes it?

I suppose I was just suggesting to define a non-Violent form of Islam, religion of peace and all. But I take it nobody actually believes that is possible.
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:14
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,770
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
So when events like these occur, politicians and Muslims state it has nothing to do with Islam and the perpetrators are not Muslims. On what grounds are these statements made, and who actually believes it?
Thou shalt not kill

Do read this to the end Phos, you repeatedly pose the same question(s) and I believe this article addresses it succinctly using universally accepted proofs i.e. The Quran and Sunnah. The difference between ignorance and enlightenment is that those that commit terrorist acts are amongst the ignorant, which is why they are so easily radicalised.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #197  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:19
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,970
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,253 Times in 5,009 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Well they also killed their own brother. One of the two policemen shot at the site was a practicing Muslim.
The fundamentalists' justification is that anyone working for the infidel isn't a proper Muslim; indeed, anyone who doesn't subscribe to their particular interpretation isn't a proper Muslim.

Which is merely the flipside of those who say these killers aren't proper Muslims.

I do not believe that all Islamic terrorists are ignorant. They merely have their own interpretation of the Koran.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #198  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:24
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,092
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 9,661 Times in 4,067 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Thou shalt not kill

Do read this to the end Phos, you repeatedly pose the same question(s) and I believe this article addresses it succinctly using universally accepted proofs i.e. The Quran and Sunnah. The difference between ignorance and enlightenment is that those that commit terrorist acts are amongst the ignorant, which is why they are so easily radicalised.
Hmmm...point 1:

Quote:
1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
1: Infidels are not souls that God has made sacrosanct
2: Infidels "wreak corruption in the land"

Not exactly hard to get around...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #199  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
The fundamentalists' justification is that anyone working for the infidel isn't a proper Muslim; indeed, anyone who doesn't subscribe to their particular interpretation isn't a proper Muslim.

Which is merely the flipside of those who say these killers aren't proper Muslims.

I do not believe that all Islamic terrorists are ignorant. They merely have their own interpretation of the Koran.
4:50 mark:

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #200  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:27
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,970
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,253 Times in 5,009 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I really want to believe that most Muslims are peaceful and have a peaceful interpretation of the Koran, but it's too easy to have a differing point of view:

Point 2)
Quote:
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.
Fail. The motive may be religious without a desire to impose Islam. For example, punishing the blasphemer.

Quote:
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
They drew first! (Or "they" (the West) invaded Iraq) They started it!

etc.

If everyone subscribed to the interpretations as listed, that would be a great thing. If it was established that this interpretation was the only correct interpretation, that'd be wonderful. The trouble is, the interpretation varies from teacher to teacher. There can be five differing interpretations in the same Mosque.
__________________
In accordance with Political Correctness guidelines, I've checked my privileges and come to the conclusion that I'm awesome.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
charlie hebdo




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PHOTO SHOOTINGS with 100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEE! Aline.marandet Commercial 2 07.03.2014 14:17
Post office in France (Divonne) - open tomorrow? idefix General off-topic 3 01.11.2012 16:19
UK Passport office in France - a cautionary tale maxhd Complaints corner 21 07.09.2010 10:34
The Cumbria shootings eng_ch International affairs/politics 8 05.06.2010 00:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0