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  #201  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:28
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Deport and remove citizenship for the whole family of these wits, they must have known that their close ones were going to Syria etc and were going radical. Why didn't they go to the police?

No other way to exterminate these brainwashed kids.
'kin ell - there really are some seriously, seriously stupid people on this forum.
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  #202  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:33
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Thou shalt not kill

Do read this to the end Phos, you repeatedly pose the same question(s) and I believe this article addresses it succinctly using universally accepted proofs i.e. The Quran and Sunnah. The difference between ignorance and enlightenment is that those that commit terrorist acts are amongst the ignorant, which is why they are so easily radicalised.
the first thing we lawyers are taught is that the exceptions are always, and I do mean always, more important than the rule. the piece you linked to is, at best, analytically handicapped and/or lazy and, at worst, intellectually dishonest and an outright misrepresentation of the plain effect of the words it purports to analyze.

I say the same thing, by the way, to fundamentalist Christians who try to explain various provisions of the Bible to me. although, in fairness to those fundamentalists, 95% of the offending provisions they are trying to explain actually come from the Old Testament.
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  #203  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:48
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I'll add another extreme one. Strip any people who commit terrorist acts of their nationality and send them off to ISIS to get a real taste of what they think Islam is.

Asking Muslims to define Islam is like asking Christians to define Christianity. Everyone has their own ideas - which frankly should be fine. People don't all have to believe exactly the same thing and unless religion is involved nobody expects them to.

I think a major step would be for the ordinary Muslims in the world to come out on the streets in their thousands and protest these killings in the same way that they've protested over cartoons about Mohammed. Until they do they tacitly condon these attacks. Yes, they've all verbally condemned the attacks, but to these people that's just words, nothing more. To actually see that the Muslim majority is against everything they stand for might get it through their heads that killing someone just because you don't like what they say/do isn't the answer.

The largest demo ever done in the Arab World took place after 11thSep01 in Casablanca. Here in Switzerland NOW, Hisham Maizar, the president of the Föderation Islamischer Dachorganisationen Schweiz has very clearly condemned what has happęned and has asked Muslims in Switzerland to participate in the demo tonight. Muslims by the thousands the world over participated in anti terror demos for decades, so that your wish has been fulfilled long ago. "Until they do" means that you apparently live in the 1980ies


Two Arab Muslims, a policeman and a Cartoonist, are among those killed yesterday in Paris. Simply ignoring them is not fair. You should leave such to terrorists-in-Spirit


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Deport and remove citizenship for the whole family of these wits, they must have known that their close ones were going to Syria etc and were going radical. Why didn't they go to the police?

No other way to exterminate these brainwashed kids.

This is rubbish. It is known in the meantime that the families often know less than others, because such chaps Keep the truth away from their families. By your logic we have to deport or kill all those who recently travelled on the same bus or Train, as they must have known ...............


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Well I assume there is some process that French Muslims could follow to request a law to ban such cartoons; at least that would provide a platform for debate.

There are fanatics in every religion; as mentioned there was the Scandinavian shooting of so many children also the US Ohio bombing and many other examples.
Attempting to take action against the members of a whole religion is self defeating. Either it generates more fanatics or drives the members "underground" or both.
It must be faced that it is practically impossible to identify such "lone wolves" before they act; the best that can be hoped for is to have swift and successful reaction by the police after such an event.
Better weapons control would help; how do people get their hands on such powerful weapons?

Negative. One Arab Muslim who was a Cartoonist was among those killed yesterday, I do not accept that he and the Arab-Muslim policeman are declared NOT to have been Arabs and NOT to have been Muslims. Most likely they were better Arabs and better Muslims than the criminals
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  #204  
Old 08.01.2015, 17:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I say the same thing, by the way, to fundamentalist Christians who try to explain various provisions of the Bible to me. although, in fairness to those fundamentalists, 95% of the offending provisions they are trying to explain actually come from the Old Testament.
the new testament isnt better... googled "new testament and killing"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bib..._of_violence_2

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

http://www.answering-christianity.com/killer.htm

(ps I have not confirmed checking the bible)

It's amazing how we still until this day is taking advice and letting us be guided by 1000s years old books which has been written and been re-written again and again and again by fanatics back then...

so maybe it's time to scrap all these books and just be nice to each other
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  #205  
Old 08.01.2015, 18:01
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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  #206  
Old 08.01.2015, 18:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Well, some sentimental concepts expounded by a Juan Cole, not noting historical context, nor how it is abrogated by following verses on slaying the unbelievers, very sugary. But quite hard to reconcile with actions demonstrated multiple times a day by Muslims in the cause of Islam. Anyone bother to send those guys Juan Cole's memo?
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  #207  
Old 08.01.2015, 18:39
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Err... I'll take Dubai please
I would have said Turkey 10-years ago but now I agree with you!
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  #208  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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the new testament isnt better... googled "new testament and killing"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bib..._of_violence_2

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

http://www.answering-christianity.com/killer.htm

(ps I have not confirmed checking the bible)
The first is accurate. The second is an atheistic interpretation, the third is a Muslim's interpretation.

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It's amazing how we still until this day is taking advice and letting us be guided by 1000s years old books which has been written and been re-written again and again and again by fanatics back then...
Yeah - the injunction to love your neighbour is really shitty. And as for 1 Corinthians 13 - that must be banned immediately.

Of course there is violence in the Bible. Many violent passages when seen in context, are reports of what happened, or of humans response to events - not condoning them. Some are indeed more problematic (i.e. God does seem to be advocating violence and cruelty). Certainly it seems, in recent years, to not really have provoked as similar a level of violence as Islam. Christiandom had its spasms of violence during the crusades, the inquisition and the domination of South America, but has settled down now. I don't think they're really directly comparable nowadays.

Hitchens seems to suggest that there is a civil war going on with Islam between the moderates who have a peaceful interpretation and the fundamentalists. Since the fundamentalists are more prepared to die for their beliefs than the moderates, it looks like they'll win. Mind you, the forces of moderation and toleration seem to have overcome in the West, so maybe there is hope!
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  #209  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Err... I'll take Dubai please

I suppose that the Maktoums have some free places in one of their prisons
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  #210  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:03
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The first is accurate. The second is an atheistic interpretation, the third is a Muslim's interpretation.

Yeah - the injunction to love your neighbour is really shitty. And as for 1 Corinthians 13 - that must be banned immediately.

Yes. There is violence in the Bible, but it seems, in recent years, to not really have provoked as similar a level of violence as Islam. Christiandom had its spasms of violence during the crusades, the inquisition and the domination of South America, but has settled down now. I don't think they're really directly comparable nowadays.

Hitchens seems to suggest that there is a civil war going on with Islam between the moderates who have a peaceful interpretation and the fundamentalists. Since the fundamentalists are more prepared to die for their beliefs than the moderates, it looks like they'll win.

While the fundamentalists are losing, the longer the more
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  #211  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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so maybe it's time to scrap all these books and just be nice to each other
I wish it were that simple! But I guess that's the conundrum... if we want to support and allow the freedom of speech, then it seems logical that we should also support the freedom of belief.

After all, burning books that we personally don't believe in is a bit similar to what happened during the Inquisition, no?

But I certainly do agree that we ought to be nicer to one another... and one step toward that direction might be tolerance (not toward violence of course, but toward the diversity of belief).
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  #212  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:18
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Marine LePen and the NF are of course lapping it up- a gift from the 'Gods' for them. Already given her the excuse of promising to bring back the death penalty- and to win quite a few more votes

Last edited by Odile; 08.01.2015 at 19:30.
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  #213  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:19
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Err... I'll take Dubai please
Europeans are (still) treated (fairly) well in oil-rich Dubai.

Let's see how you fare there with an Indian passport.
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Old 08.01.2015, 19:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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But I certainly do agree that we ought to be nicer to one another... and one step toward that direction might be tolerance (not toward violence of course, but toward the diversity of belief).
We are tolerant to the diversity of belief - the west provides freedom of worship unparalleled to any past example. That is one reason for the huge immigration wave from (failed) Muslim countries.
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Old 08.01.2015, 19:29
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I would have said Turkey 10-years ago but now I agree with you!

Turkey let recently to build (and not just restore) a christian church. A first since a hundred years. 'Tis is infinitely more tolerant than any of the Emirates.
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Old 08.01.2015, 19:37
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I would have said Turkey 10-years ago but now I agree with you!
How about Oman?
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  #217  
Old 08.01.2015, 19:48
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Marine LePen and the NF are of course lapping it up- a gift from the 'Gods' for them. Already given her the excuse of promising to bring back the death penalty- and to win quite a few more votes
http://inspiration.allwomenstalk.com...-give-yourself
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  #218  
Old 08.01.2015, 21:09
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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We are tolerant to the diversity of belief - the west provides freedom of worship unparalleled to any past example. That is one reason for the huge immigration wave from (failed) Muslim countries.
No, no, no. I think she means especially tolerant to Muslims and Islam. Question, insult, ridicule and denigrate all other beliefs by all means, but just don't raise an inkling of a doubt about Islam. It apparently causes a morality system crash with its adherents, and they lose their peace.

And by the way, don't even ask about tolerance in any Muslim country for non-Believers. Peace and tolerance is only for other Muslims, maybe; unless others convert or pay a special tax that will allow them to be considered somewhat human.

Just follow, obey and don't question, because it is a religion of peace.
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  #219  
Old 08.01.2015, 21:19
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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We are tolerant to the diversity of belief - the west provides freedom of worship unparalleled to any past example. That is one reason for the huge immigration wave from (failed) Muslim countries.
I think you'll find its economic opportunities rather than anything else driving immigration from North Africa.. and besides Algeria and Morocco aren't exactly paragons of religious oppression. There are more synagogues in Casablanca than the entire French part of Switzerland.
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  #220  
Old 08.01.2015, 21:48
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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And by the way, don't even ask about tolerance in any Muslim country for non-Believers. Peace and tolerance is only for other Muslims, maybe; unless others convert or pay a special tax that will allow them to be considered somewhat human.
You ought to try to say you're a non-believer in the U.S.
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