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  #401  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Several hostages have been freed at the supermarket site. No word yet on the gunman.
I'm listening to all of the kosher hostages killed
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  #402  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Brothers 'came out firing'

Posted at 16:30

A source to AFP says that the Kouachi brothers "came out firing" on security forces.
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  #403  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Several hostages have been freed at the supermarket site. No word yet on the gunman.
Dead.

Tom
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  #404  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

The end?

We can only hope (...)
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Old 09.01.2015, 18:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

The hostage-taker at the supermarket in eastern Paris is also reported dead by Le Monde newspaper.
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  #406  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yes cops should only deal with parking fines from now on. Really?
It was the police who had chosen their own professions, not their families who chose it for them. When I consider their grief, I do find myself wondering what is more important: the existence of this magazine, or the innocent lives that were lost but were not directly involved in the magazine? Yes, they are policemen/women... but they were also husbands/wives, fathers/mothers...

Surely, even the families of some of those killed at the magazine must be wondering if it was worth it.

Yes, the freedom of speech is precious, but like all things that are truly precious, it should be handled carefully.

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At least the French politician was not offended enough to shoot the BBC reporter for asking the offensive question.
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  #407  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:38
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The [Brittish] journalist raised the question of whether or not Charlie Hebdo should have been a bit more cautious about whom their magazine was offending.
In France, this is not even a question, the woman was not offended, she was looking for a nice way to tell him he was displaying pure ignorance about France by asking that. Blame cultural differences if it helps dealing with this fact but you won't change France. Even at the price of terrorist attacks. Giving up freedom of press and expression by living in permanent self-censorship is not an option for Charlie Hebdo.

There is nothing wrong with other cultures reacting differently, like the Danes who had big "we're sorry" demonstrations after the "caricaturegate". They chose to give up a part of their freedom of press and expression by living in permanent self-censorship, it's fine too. But it's not Charlie.

Most of what was published in this paper would be unthinkable in most other western countries anyway. Islamic extremism related caricatures are not that shocking compared with others of their favorite targets like the church, far right groups, Israel, US foreign politics, French politicians etc.
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  #408  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:41
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

personally, i would be of course extremely sad- but to be honest, i would be so proud of them for doing their jobs, not backing down to threats and in the case of the officers- protecting others from people such as this.

i'm sure that if it wasn't the offices of charlie hebdo, it would've been something else. if you look to kill by reason of being offended- there will always be a reason to be offended. and if you can justify killing by reason of being offended then you can always justify killing. at least this makes perfect sense to me...
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  #409  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:41
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Innocent lives were lost by the action of the Islamists and not by the action of the cartoonists. Sorry but I am not playing blame the victim game with you.

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Meaning civilized people don't shoot when offended.
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  #410  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It was the police who had chosen their own professions, not their families who chose it for them. When I consider their grief, I do find myself wondering what is more important: the existence of this magazine, or the innocent lives that were lost but were not directly involved in the magazine? Yes, they are policemen/women... but they were also husbands/wives, fathers/mothers...

Surely, even the families of some of those killed at the magazine must be wondering if it was worth it.

Yes, the freedom of speech is precious, but like all things that are truly precious, it should be handled carefully.
come on already, didn't we get enough of this apologetic moral relativism yesterday?



I guess at this point, however, we can safely assume that your avatar is not a tribute to Zukkihund.
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  #411  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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  #412  
Old 09.01.2015, 18:48
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I hope this is just a precaution?

Le Monde is reporting that the Great Synagogue of Paris (La Victoire Synagogue) has been evacuated and tonight's Shabbat service there has been cancelled.

What a waste, what a waste! Time for the police to wrap the whole support network of these Islamists.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 09.01.2015 at 19:57. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #413  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The end?

We can only hope (...)

Unfortunately not. MI5 and US agencies hear increasing chatter of more attacks of this style.

http://news.yahoo.com/britains-mi5-c...220625665.html

These attackers were applauded by a large contingency of Muslims around the world. An Imam in India declared he had about $1M dollars to give them for carrying out this massacre. Monitoring of social media showed a lot of celebratory messages for the massacre.

They need to investigate how these attackers knew the time of the Charlie Hebdo board meeting.
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  #414  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I'm listening to all of the kosher hostages killed
I don't think so, some were seen in the footage running away.
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  #415  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:07
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Unfortunately not. MI5 and US agencies hear increasing chatter of more attacks of this style.

http://news.yahoo.com/britains-mi5-c...220625665.html

These attackers were applauded by a large contingency of Muslims around the world. An Imam in India declared he had about $1M dollars to give them for carrying out this massacre. Monitoring of social media showed a lot of celebratory messages for the massacre.

They need to investigate how these attackers knew the time of the Charlie Hebdo board meeting.
Exactly! I hope security is tightened for Ayaan Ali, Salman Rushdie, Taslima Nasrin and other brave people who call a spade a spade.
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Old 09.01.2015, 19:09
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It was the police who had chosen their own professions, not their families who chose it for them. When I consider their grief, I do find myself wondering what is more important: the existence of this magazine, or the innocent lives that were lost but were not directly involved in the magazine? Yes, they are policemen/women... but they were also husbands/wives, fathers/mothers...

Surely, even the families of some of those killed at the magazine must be wondering if it was worth it.

Yes, the freedom of speech is precious, but like all things that are truly precious, it should be handled carefully.



Question is; once you change your life as a reaction to fanatics then it is a slippery slope and where do you draw the red line?
Suppose, for an extreme example, they ordered that all women in France should wear head scarves?
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  #417  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:11
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Innocent lives were lost by the action of the Islamists and not by the action of the cartoonists. Sorry but I am not playing blame the victim game with you.



Meaning civilized people don't shoot when offended.
I knew that's what you meant (that civilized people don't shoot when offended). It's just that I thought that was obvious... and not really relevant to the journalist/politician conversation that I had mentioned and that you were referring to.

I understand that lives were lost due to the actions of the "terrorists." And I'm not trying to blame the victims here. They would all still be alive if it wasn't for the willingness of people to resort to violence to defend their religion(s). But I think it's necessary to sometimes step back a bit and look at the whole picture. And I do think it's important to question things like the subjectivity of humor and the possibility of the freedom of speech to be abused. (I'll admit that when I read about the magazine portraying the child victims of Boko Haram as being the children of welfare prostitutes, I was rather disgusted). Yes, the freedom of speech is a right, and it's a right that should remain intact despite who it offends, but it is also a right that can be abused.

This actually reminds me somewhat of when 9/11 happened. Everyone was so quick to raise their American flags afterward, but most didn't start asking WHY it happened until after quite some time had passed. Many Americans still have never bothered to ask why. After all, people don't just fly planes into skyscrapers for no reason (regardless of whether or not that reason is morally right or wrong). I've even met quite a few Americans who said that they thought 9/11 happened because the terrorists were jealous of American culture. I personally wanted to know why exactly those (almost) 3,000 lives were lost. It wasn't until after the shock and emotions had been subdued a bit that people began to question.
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  #418  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

On TV 5 monde, they talk about 5 deatsh in the kosher site. They don't know yet who are the 4 others dead with the terrorist, they are not sure if the guy was acting alone or if someone else was with him.

The hostage of the two brothers is alive.
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  #419  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The caretaker in the office - civilian no? Plus a visitor to the office?

Do you mean in terrorist terms the rest were legitimate targets? the cartoonists?
Seeing they were armed with pens and the pen is stronger than the sword, they were obviously not civiians but bloodthirsty insurgents. The guys who shot them were purely acting out of self defence.

Let's not confuse perpetrators and victims shall we?
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  #420  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:15
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I've read four hostages have also died
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