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  #41  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:10
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Absolute freedom of speech is not even allowed here.
I think this is an excellent point. and, if people want to participate in western society, they are more than welcome to petition their local elected official, initiate a referendum, fight City Hall, or take any other legally-permitted and constitutionally-protected action to address their grievances, including pushing for a prohibition on speech that offends them.

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...do you realize how many non-violent "normal" Muslims that would inadvertently piss off?
that is, in many cases, precisely the point of good and effective satire.
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  #42  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:11
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm not sure if you really meant that, but... do you realize how many non-violent "normal" Muslims that would inadvertently piss off?
Yes, I do mean it. If they get their feelings hurt by some pictures then tough sh!t. I can't remember wanting to go and shoot up Charlie Hebdo when they printed this...

...actually, it's quite acurate.

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  #43  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:21
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

before putrid comments start invading this thread, I would like you to know that the policeman that was shot in the head in the video is 42 years old and member of the FO french police union.....and his first name is Ahmed.

RIP Cabu, Wolinski, Charb, Tignous and Ahmed.

Make no mistake on who is the real enemy.
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  #44  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm not sure if you really meant that, but... do you realize how many non-violent "normal" Muslims that would inadvertently piss off?
according to Olygirl's logic - very few. The caricature mocked ISIS which, she assures us, is a tiny minority.

Castro - Holocaust denying is a lie, and as such it is rightly banned. and it also usually done by people who think a Holocaust is a good thing.
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  #45  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:24
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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according to Olygirl's logic - very few. The caricature mocked ISIS which, she assures us, is a tiny minority.

Castro - Holocaust denying is a lie, and as such it is rightly banned. and it also usually done by people who think a Holocaust is a good thing.
What the hell? Stop twisting my words! I have never said such a thing.

Edit: Seriously, I enjoying debating and listening to different opinions but when posters stoop so low as to twist words and post lies about what I've said, then I need to leave this thread. Freedom of speech only works when there is respect and truth. Everything else is used as a tool to soothe one's ego.
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  #46  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:28
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

your words:

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Lack of respect on the side of the magazine that knowingly riled Islamist fanatics although this is no excuse for the cowardly but deadly attack.

Dear Newspapers:

Could you please not write headlines like "Islamisten richten in Paris Massaker an 12 Tote". This has less to do with religion than with fanaticism of a belief. These were two narrow-minded fanatics who could not control their behaviour for whatever reasons. It's not fair towards all the other law-biding faithful and/or citizens of Islamic countries and causes more tension than needed.
In any case - A long as speech is not a lie or calls for violence it should be allowed.

All beliefs must be criticized.
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  #47  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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A car bomb has just blown up near a synagogue.

What is wrong with people..bombed mosques in Sweden, car bombs near a synagogue in France. This is turning into some vicious urban guerilla warfare lead by disillusioned and disturbed lunatics.
please edit your post. It is proven that it is a coincidence and an accident. The driver left the car when it caught fire during driving. It has been confirmed by almost all media now
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  #48  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:35
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Castro - Holocaust denying is a lie, and as such it is rightly banned. and it also usually done by people who think a Holocaust is a good thing.
Its not banned because its a lie, its banned because its an incitement to antisemitism and violence towards Jews. Other Nazi-era, antisemitic tropes are also taboo subjects in the West, which no newspaper would print. And that is something I am happy to see, because incitement to violence or ridicule has no place in a civilised society.
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  #49  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:35
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

you have free speech or you don't, if you want to be a Holocaust denier, fine by me, you're an idiot but that's your right. If you want to say mohammed was a woman, fine by me. It works all ways, to start saying you have free speech - except for ...... is very dangerous.

once again a thread descends to the gutter as soon as religion is mentioned, I'm not a racist but ..... some of my best friends are xyz but .....
all total bollocks
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  #50  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Western values of free speech is not the problem here. It is the solution. It has come hand in hand with Free Thinking, and the progresses made in innovating every aspect of our lives. It IS the only defense we have against tyranny and ignorance. It IS human progress in itself. Trade in Free Speech, and you might as well crawl back towards the dark ages, which is what these Islamic terrorists are working towards.

Those terrorists are not irrational nutjobs. Their planning and executiion shows it. They are not insane, they are evil. They cannot be allowed to win.

The Charlie Hebdo massacre will not be forgotten, and this is not defeat. They are martyrs of free speech, are now a cause célèbre, and will gain more for the liberty of free speech in the long run. This will not be ignored. May the impact of their talent expand exponentially, and may dozens times more spawn in their place.
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  #51  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

all the while you call people evil or terrorists or nutjobs you'll have the same issues, if someone 100% believes a certain interpretation of a 2000 year old fairy tail does that make them a nutjob??

demonising your 'enemy' has always made it more palatable for the general population when you kill them, people really need to wake up.
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  #52  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:42
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/thelist.htm
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  #53  
Old 07.01.2015, 17:46
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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if someone 100% believes a certain interpretation of a 2000 year old fairy tail does that make them a nutjob??
no, but killing another human being because they believe a fairy tale does. and, again not to put too fine a point on it, the particular fairy tale here is not the one that is 2000 years old, although that is not in any way meant to excuse the other nutjobs.

our local paper has updated its Facebook profile picture to the front and back cover of the Charia Hebdo edition that caused a fair amount of uproar previously. kudos to them.
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  #54  
Old 07.01.2015, 18:24
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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All beliefs must be criticized.
do you believe that?

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  #55  
Old 07.01.2015, 18:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And there's the crux. The folks making these attacks (shootings, bombings, whatever) are not rational people. They're fanatics of one sort or another. Rational people can write and read satire and irony and might get a tad upset and write a nasty letter to the editor. Nutjobs be nutjobs.
Islam, or more it's most radical form is a fashionable tool for lost and bored people looking for a cause that will bring attention to them. Because, that's the case, the lunatic is actually often someone who is in need to become somebody and have his name out there. IS provide that to them by offering a cause. How many more causes in the world are promoted as the best one to die for?

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all the while you call people evil or terrorists or nutjobs you'll have the same issues, if someone 100% believes a certain interpretation of a 2000 year old fairy tail does that make them a nutjob??

demonising your 'enemy' has always made it more palatable for the general population when you kill them, people really need to wake up.
Many of them have no freaking idea of what is in the Koran. They radicalized themselves in a matter of weeks on the Internet by jihadis brainwashers. The most violent jihadis are mostly whitis newly converted. Those are the most dangerous Muslims to look out for.
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  #56  
Old 07.01.2015, 19:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

So they've caught the murderers, then?
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  #57  
Old 07.01.2015, 20:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I think I may have vaguely seen some of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons before---usually compilations of editorial cartoons from around the world---but I haven't been that familiar with them until now. I'm sorry that it took this tragedy for me to learn more about them.
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  #58  
Old 07.01.2015, 20:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Many of them have no freaking idea of what is in the Koran. They radicalized themselves in a matter of weeks on the Internet by jihadis brainwashers. The most violent jihadis are mostly whitis newly converted. Those are the most dangerous Muslims to look out for.
I'm sure there are many cases of that. There may be a pathway for guilt laden whiti liberals, turn apologist for any Islamic violence, to full blown jihadist. These ought to be locked up and lobotomized before they start claiming to be Muslims and really damaging the cause of truly good Muslims trying to live out a good version of Islam.
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  #59  
Old 07.01.2015, 20:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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They're only "sitting ducks" if we agree that an unusually high percentage of people of the Muslim faith don't have the emotional/intellectual maturity or self-restraint to deal with satire concerning their beliefs and that this was somehow doomed to happen. If that's the case, can we just agree that freedom of speech in relation to Islam effectively doesn't exist?

No we cannot


There is no "unusually high percentage of People of Muslim faith who don't have the maturity ....." but a very small one. 3 or 4 gunmen out of a minority of more than 10 millions is hardly a high percentage


Freedom of speech in relation to Islam DOES exist, but I cannot understand why there were no security and safety precautions established by that paper. To be realistic, London and Paris and other places in Western Europe in many ways are part of the Muslim World


Sure the victims were NOT guilty but clearly careless.
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  #60  
Old 07.01.2015, 20:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm sure there are many cases of that. There may be a pathway for guilt laden whiti liberals, turn apologist for any Islamic violence, to full blown jihadist. These ought to be locked up and lobotomized before they start claiming to be Muslims and really damaging the cause of truly good Muslims trying to live out a good version of Islam.

There can not be an excuse for violence. And I hope police succeeds in getting the culprits
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