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  #781  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yes, the sanctimonious, hypocritical bullshit filling the airwaves and cyberspace is ridiculous, but what can we do?
Allow me to bring it closer to home.

I don't like the SVP campaign of racism and labeling of the foreigners. I find it offensive and it shouldn't have its place in the public space. But it's their rights to do so. You once, told me that it is better to know what one think than having no ideas of their ideas and plans.

I'd say, the same apply to Charly Hebdo. The difference with the, is they didn't target one part of the population but ridiculize and mock everyone with the same passion.

It is not Charlie Hebdo that didn't have the right to mock, it's the jackass who killed.
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  #782  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:45
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I wonder when the European Leaders will stop insisting that terror has nothing to do with Islam. Accordin go them, Islam is a religion of peace whereas terrorists are sick individuals with mental problems.

This cannot be any far from the truth. Both terrorists and moderate peaceful muslims adhere to the Quran. In the Quran, muslims are clearly instructed to terrorize non-believers. Obviously very small majority of all "muslims" are terrorists. However, all terrorists with one exception (Brejvik) are muslims.

There is something else I was thinking about today. An extremist is defined as someone who acts in a very drastic, very radical way. Well, I can make the case that terrorists are not extremists, they are simply mainstream muslims because they simply adhere to what is written in their book - nothing more nothing less.

For this, Western leaders need to recognize that there is a serious issue and that political correctness cannot do any good.
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  #783  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:46
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Sorry, the big problem is how allegedly French citizens acted against their parents' adoptive country's values.
Muslims in Saudi Arabia are free to exercise their own interpretation of Koran. What the attackers did is not acceptable in France. In France, the Prophet, as well as other Prophets, could be make fun of.

It's not about religion here, it's about laws. Talion law doesn't apply there. If they felt offended, they should have taken it to the court.
i think actually the big problem here is that these men- french men, two of whom were raised, much of their childhood, in french institutions with such little hope, support and preparation for the future that they fall so easily into a regime that can convince them to murder innocent people, including fellow muslims (if this is religiously motivated) and that their own lives have such little value as well as the lives of others. the fact that these men, raised in france and not before religious, can be so disillusioned by their own propects as to go this far and fall for something so evil- is frightening and tragic and a far more serious and real problem.

and to see them go down in the way that did- how ever shameful we may think it is, doesn't bode well for the world. certainly, others in a similar situation as they have been, can see this outcome in a very different light then we do.
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  #784  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yes, the sanctimonious, hypocritical bullshit filling the airwaves and cyberspace is ridiculous, but what can we do?
Ignore it? put everyone on your ignore list? Go and pray to your deity? Go and have a nice cup of tea?

Thanks all the same but we really don't need you to police the internet for us. It's not as if your point of view as any more validity than anyone else's, is it?
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  #785  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:55
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Ignore it? put everyone on your ignore list? Go and pray to your deity? Go and have a nice cup of tea?

Thanks all the same but we really don't need you to police the internet for us. It's not as if your point of view as any more validity than anyone else's, is it?
Oh dear. Have I offended you?
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  #786  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:58
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

btw, after each beheading, ISIS releases videos where they justify the killing by quoting specific verses of the Quran. I wonder then, how can any people argue that terrorists have nothing to do with Islam. Actually, I do understand that politicians need to do this to keep trade agreements with Middle Eastern countries and preserve the religious tolerance, but I simply cannot see why everyday people, journalists and bloggers can argue that Islam is a religion of peace. I also wonder whether anyone can give me a valid argument that Islam is a religious of peace, other than groaning helplessly my posts

Its funny how liberals argue that all religions and all cultures are equal but liberals fail to be "liberal" toward other opinions that differ from their

CHeers.
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  #787  
Old 12.01.2015, 00:01
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Keine Ahnung- indeed.

So what do you actually propose to do? Your wisdom please.

Hitler, in 1937:

"In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this: that He would give His blessing to our work, and that He may ever give us the courage to do the right. I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty. No man can fashion world history unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence."

Do you blame the Christians for the holocaust?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/4...kBNpQ.facebook

Last edited by Odile; 12.01.2015 at 00:14.
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  #788  
Old 12.01.2015, 00:01
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/sto...unde--17621762

"We're puking on all our new friends".
Says surviving Charlie Hebdo caricaturist.
Meaning all the new Facebook-friends like Vladimir Putin, but not exclusively.

I really like this attitude. Producing a paper like theirs, you can't really have friends.
If I had a Facebook account, I'd actually friend them just for that comment ;-)

BTW: he survived because he hated the editorial conferences on Wednesday and never joined them...
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  #789  
Old 12.01.2015, 00:05
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Keine Ahnung- indeed.

So what do you actually propose to do? Your wisdome please.
When muslims are told that the problem lies within their own religion, they might start reforming it and changing it for the better. While Cameron and Obama insist that Islam exemplifies the most peaceful fairy tail in the world, what incentives would ordinary Muslims have to change their religion, as it is already perfect ?
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Oh dear. Have I offended you?
Not at all. Was that your intention?
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:12
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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i think actually the big problem here is that these men- french men, two of whom were raised, much of their childhood, in french institutions with such little hope, support and preparation for the future that they fall so easily into a regime that can convince them to murder innocent people, including fellow muslims (if this is religiously motivated) and that their own lives have such little value as well as the lives of others. the fact that these men, raised in france and not before religious, can be so disillusioned by their own propects as to go this far and fall for something so evil- is frightening and tragic and a far more serious and real problem.

and to see them go down in the way that did- how ever shameful we may think it is, doesn't bode well for the world. certainly, others in a similar situation as they have been, can see this outcome in a very different light then we do.
They grew up in France, for goodness' sake, not in Sudan. No hope? Really? (access to a home, clothes, food, school, social assistance, etc etc etc etc....)
Everyone has free will and a conscience, Amaraya.

Even I personally felt really sorry for them, I can't blame the French society - most probably the did whatever they could for these "kids". Such an absurd situation.
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:19
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I wonder when the European Leaders will stop insisting that terror has nothing to do with Islam. Accordin go them, Islam is a religion of peace whereas terrorists are sick individuals with mental problems.

This cannot be any far from the truth. Both terrorists and moderate peaceful muslims adhere to the Quran. In the Quran, muslims are clearly instructed to terrorize non-believers. Obviously very small majority of all "muslims" are terrorists. However, all terrorists with one exception (Brejvik) are muslims.
Not really true... but whatever

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Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests. In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence.

Source: 2009 Europol report
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:20
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Keine Ahnung- indeed.

So what do you actually propose to do? Your wisdom please.

Hitler, in 1937:

"In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this: that He would give His blessing to our work, and that He may ever give us the courage to do the right. I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty. No man can fashion world history unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence."

Do you blame the Christians for the holocaust?
Hitler obviously tried to justify his actions by making them consistent with God`s will. If he had created a Religion to which he adheres, I would have given you credit for that argument. Besides, I do admit that the Old Testimony is the greatest horror book in the history of the world. Christianity, however, was reformed by the introduction of the New Testimony. In Islam, there is no New Testimony. The words in the Quran are considered the words of God and these words are not open to interpretation. They are quite specific.

Btw, Odile, just because Christianity brough terror to the world, this should not stop you from admitting that Islam does the same now
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Not at all. Was that your intention?
Do I look like a French cartoonist?
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Do I look like a French cartoonist?
Well, yes.

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Old 12.01.2015, 00:27
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Not really true... but whatever
2006-2008 ?

Very convenient, since during this period ETA conducted a few attacks.
What about Lee Rigby murder in 2013, what about the Bourgas (Bulgaria) bus bombing in 2012, when 8 Israeli turists were killed, what about the countless documented or undocumented rapes in Malmų, the Muslims patrools in the Uk and Germany and so on..
And this is only within the EU What about the fact that in Nigeria or Pakistan basically bombings which kill 200 people are not even announced because are considered daily and normal ?
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:29
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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They grew up in France, for goodness' sake, not in Sudan. No hope? Really?
Everyone has free will and a conscience, Amaraya.

Even I personally felt really sorry for them, I can't blame the French society. Such an absurd situation.
i think you misunderstand. in fact it doesn't have to be france and it doesn't have to be these particular men, exactly- i hate to say it but we've seen it and we'll see it again with people who grew up in the us, the uk or where ever else. this time it happens to be france but there are other places ripe for this, i'm sure. i think, in fact, that it isn't religion pushing these men to do this. religion they weren't brought up in and religion they weren't following when committing these murders- i tend to think people that fall for any kind of radicalism are searching for something.and here everyone is so obsessed about the religion, the tie to it and the doctrine of it- but certainly these men would've ended up thugs and killers under any guise

of course they have free will, but a conscience- there are plenty of people without that. my point is that plenty of boys/men, and as we see women too, fall for this belief that it is their mission, their purpose or their destiny or at least that they have nothing to lose and something to gain. it's a dangerous one and now that others have seen that these men did just that- there will, i fear, be plenty prepared to do the same.
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:30
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

What about FARC and the Lord's Resistance Army or the Shining Path or November 17 or the IRA or the KLA or the UDF or the RAF or...?
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Do you blame the Christians for the holocaust?
I hate this kind of moral relativism, which is solely intended to distract from the true subject at hand. I don't know about Der Spieler, but the short answer is yes, I do blame organized Christianity for the Holocaust. in fact, the Holocaust is just the tip of the iceberg with respect to the unimaginable atrocities committed in the name of organized Christianity over the course of the last 2,000 years.

does this make the current state of organized Islam better?



faith is a wonderful and sacred thing, and people should remain free to choose whichever faith they desire. organized religion is a despicable and utterly damnable tool of oppression, hatred and totalitarianism.
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Old 12.01.2015, 00:32
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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2006-2008 ?

Very convenient, since during this period ETA conducted a few attacks.
What about Lee Rigby in 2013, what about the Bourgas (Bulgaria) bus bombing in 2012, when 8 Israeli turists were killed, what about the countless documented or undocumented rapes in Malmų, the Muslims patrools in the Uk and Germany and so on..
And this is only within the EU What about the fact that in Nigeria or Pakistan basically bombings which kill 200 people are not even announced because are considered daily and normal ?
I answered your rather absurd assertion that apart from Anders Brejvik, all terrorists are Muslim.
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