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Old 16.01.2015, 16:09
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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About "Enough drone strikes and that number rises...." Were the Paris fanatics claiming their terrorist controllers in Yemen were getting hit by drone strikes? If so, I missed that - do you have a link?
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No, they weren't claiming that. People are radicalised by different means. Although responsibility always lies solely with the perpetrator.
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  #1242  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:11
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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About "The existence of Israel is the cause celebre of Islamic terrorists" So why don't they blame the United Nations who organised the location and move to the Promised Land?
Yeah, why don't they? Well, I suspect it is due to verses in the Quran, and how Mohammed died by being poisoned by a Jewish woman. Compounded with the success of Jews in the world, while poverty pervades the Muslim world, and instead of blaming themselves and their governments, a Jewish conspiracy, in the form of a fabricated "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are an easier explanation to swallow.

In may even go farther back in time than that. The relationship of their progenitor matriarchs, Hagar and Sarah, was marked with jealousy and suspicion.

Is there no way of unravelling all this? Does it require an invasion of hostile aliens to drive the point home that humans really need to work together to ensure their mutual survival? Is it really required for God to inflict so much suffering for us to come together?
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  #1243  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:21
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yeah, why don't they? Well, I suspect it is due to verses in the Quran, and how Mohammed died by being poisoned by a Jewish woman. Compounded with the success of Jews in the world, while poverty pervades the Muslim world, and instead of blaming themselves and their governments, a Jewish conspiracy, in the form of a fabricated "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are an easier explanation to swallow.
Wow... its not often I'm rendered speechless
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  #1244  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yes, I knew about the incident in Belgium. I was agreeing with Marton that there is an ongoing incident in Paris today.
Which now appears to be over, thankfully..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-office.html
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  #1245  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Because they're not morons. The UN doesn't exist. Nor, by the way, does international law. But maybe we're veering towards a thread split here entitled "usual crap"
Actually they do not because they are morons

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of a Partition Plan that created the State of Israel.
So you believe that the Jews should have said "No thank you, the Muslims might not like your decision"?

About "The UN doesn't exist."
Last time I looked there was a huge building in New York; maybe they sold it?

About "Nor, by the way, does international law." If you say so; there is a link here that says different but probably they got it wrong. It is in Wikipedia so you can enter corrections yourself.
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  #1246  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:28
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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About "The UN doesn't exist."
Last time I looked there was a huge building in New York; maybe they sold it?
.
Sorry, where did you say that building was?
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  #1247  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yeah, why don't they? Well, I suspect it is due to verses in the Quran, and how Mohammed died by being poisoned by a Jewish woman. Compounded with the success of Jews in the world, while poverty pervades the Muslim world, and instead of blaming themselves and their governments, a Jewish conspiracy, in the form of a fabricated "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are an easier explanation to swallow.

In may even go farther back in time than that. The relationship of their progenitor matriarchs, Hagar and Sarah, was marked with jealousy and suspicion.

Is there no way of unravelling all this? Does it require an invasion of hostile aliens to drive the point home that humans really need to work together to ensure their mutual survival? Is it really required for God to inflict so much suffering for us to come together?
Obviously, he does, otherwise I would have hoped he'd stick his nose and throw a few bolts around to get peoples' attention, tell them off and send them on their way like the errant children they are.

Of course that assumes a) he/she/it/they exist and b) that he/she/it/they give a damn.
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  #1248  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Maybe I'm confusing you with somebody else. But on anyother thread, when we were talking about the Einwanderungsinitiative, weren't you saying that Switzerland shouldn't be closing its borders to immigration. To hell with overpopulation. But now you are saying that Israel should?

I don't think there is a direct correlation between West Bank settlements and immigration. If Israel wanted to, they could settle those people elsewhere, and if they wanted to build settlements on the West Bank, they would do so even without immigration.
just did some googling. Turns out total population of Switzerland and Israel are roughly the same at 8+ Million.

For Switzerland we are talking about immigration numbers of less than 100K people per year.
For Israel when we talk about all Jews moving to Israel we are talking about immigration numbers of circa 20 Million.
Now do you see why Israel would need all the West Bank?
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  #1249  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:39
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Sorry, where did you say that building was?
No need to be sorry

The headquarters of the United Nations is a complex in New York City. The complex has served as the official headquarters of the United Nations since its completion in 1952. It is located in the Turtle Bay neighbourhood of Manhattan.

The United Nations has three additional, subsidiary, regional headquarters, or headquarters districts. These were opened in Geneva (Switzerland) in 1946, Vienna (Austria) in 1980, and Nairobi (Kenya) in 2011
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  #1250  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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No need to be sorry

The headquarters of the United Nations is a complex in New York City. The complex has served as the official headquarters of the United Nations since its completion in 1952. It is located in the Turtle Bay neighbourhood of Manhattan.

The United Nations has three additional, subsidiary, regional headquarters, or headquarters districts. These were opened in Geneva (Switzerland) in 1946, Vienna (Austria) in 1980, and Nairobi (Kenya) in 2011
Yeah, I can see what my special brand of unfunny wit is doing here so I'll cut to the chase - the UN is a tool of the USA, international law is law without an executive which is like speed limits without speeding fines. In practise, they just don't exist.
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  #1251  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Wow... its not often I'm rendered speechless

See, Marton, don't ask me such questions.


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Of course that assumes a) he/she/it/they exist and b) that he/she/it/they give a damn.
Well, what you construe as non-existence or indifference might also be a grace period to give it a chance.
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  #1252  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yeah, I can see what my special brand of unfunny wit is doing here so I'll cut to the chase - the UN is a tool of the USA, international law is law without an executive which is like speed limits without speeding fines. In practise, they just don't exist.
About "the UN is a tool of the USA"
international law is law without an executive
Ah, you are one of those! OK rational discussion over.
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  #1253  
Old 16.01.2015, 16:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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About "the UN is a tool of the USA"
international law is law without an executive
Ah, you are one of those! OK rational discussion over.
Since you're so fond of Wikipedia, have a look here and discuss what's rational again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationa...l_relations%29
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  #1254  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:34
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

What are the chances of Islamic terrorist attacks happening in Switzerland? Only matter of time?
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  #1255  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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What are the chances of Islamic terrorist attacks happening in Switzerland? Only matter of time?
ISIS threat video from yesterday, "with God’s help, we will arrive in Europe. We will expand across all of Europe, to France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and also the USA"

I don't know exactly what we did, but I suppose it is not driven by any point of cause or reason anyway. Maybe someone stared at one of them too long while they were here?
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  #1256  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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just did some googling. Turns out total population of Switzerland and Israel are roughly the same at 8+ Million.

For Switzerland we are talking about immigration numbers of less than 100K people per year.
For Israel when we talk about all Jews moving to Israel we are talking about immigration numbers of circa 20 Million.
Now do you see why Israel would need all the West Bank?
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  #1257  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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AntiZionism is usually Antisemitism. Judging Israel (and Jews) by different criteria than other nations.
Wrong. Zionism, by definition, involves a claim to a certain territory on earth — a claim alleged by Zionists, but not recognized by non- or anti-Zionists (including non- or anti-Zionist Jews).

I, for example, am hardly antisemitic (over the years, I've known many Jews as friends, acquaintances and coworkers), but I don't support Zionism.

It becomes difficult to discuss "judging Israel" without the shadow of Zionism lurking nearby, since the modern self-described secular state of Israel was established (and often justifies its subsequent actions) amid much Zionistic fanfare. In so doing, Israel has effectively set itself up — as a nation — to be judged in the shadow of Zionism. Indeed, Israel should expect to be "judged" by the criteria upon which its existence and actions are based (Zionism).

On the other hand, Judaism, by definition, flourishes in many places throughout the world quite apart from Zionism (that is, there are plenty of Jewish communities that have little or nothing to do with Zionism — see here, here and here, for example).

So Antisemitism is against Jews, while anti-Zionism is against the modern secular state of Israel's arbitrary, unilateral claim to the territory it was established on, as well as its subsequent actions in the region.
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  #1258  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Wrong. Zionism, by definition, involves a claim to a certain territory on earth — a claim alleged by Zionists, but not recognized by non- or anti-Zionists.

I, for example, am hardly antisemitic (over the years, I've known many Jews as friends, acquaintances and coworkers), but I don't support Zionism.

It becomes difficult to discuss "judging Israel" without the shadow of Zionism lurking nearby, since the modern self-described secular state of Israel was established (and often justifies its subsequent actions) amid much Zionistic fanfare. In so doing, Israel has effectively set itself up — as a nation — to be judged in the shadow of Zionism. Indeed, Israel should expect to be "judged" by the criteria upon which its existence and actions are based (Zionism).

On the other hand, Judaism, by definition, flourishes in many places throughout the world quite apart from Zionism (that is, there are plenty of Jewish communities that have little or nothing to do with Zionism — see here, here and here, for example).

So Antisemitism is against Jews, while anti-Zionism is against the modern secular state of Israel's arbitrary, unilateral claim to the territory it was established on, as well as its subsequent actions in the region.

I have to disagree with this assessment. Zionism is intrinsic in Judaism, and the importance of Jerusalem is central to its theology. The founders of modern Zionism may be secular, but they were operating from the basis of Judaism. As for the actions, decisions and implementations of the government of Israel, here you will find many dissent from many Jews on their approach and their politics. Their hardline policies are not taken well by many liberal Jews in the US as being too racist, as well as many ultra-orthodox Jews who view it as too secular.

But once again, what does Judaism, Israel and Jews have to do with Charlie Hebdo please?
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  #1259  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:05
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I have to disagree with this assessment. Zionism is intrinsic in Judaism, and the importance of Jerusalem is central to its theology...
If Zionism were truly intrinsic to Judaism, would there be so many Jews who are anti-Zionists (see the examples cited in my post above)?

That "the land" and Jerusalem are important to a certain (i.e., Zionistic) strain of Jewish theology doesn't ipso facto render all of Judaism Zionistic — just try plying that line of reasoning with members of the self-described orthodox Jewish groups cited in my post above(!).

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But once again, what does Judaism, Israel and Jews have to do with Charlie Hebdo please?
Ask Pashosh.
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  #1260  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:12
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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If Zionism were truly intrinsic to Judaism, would there be so many Jews who are anti-Zionists (see the examples cited in my post above)?

That "the land" and Jerusalem are important to a certain (i.e., Zionistic) strain of Jewish theology doesn't ipso facto render all of Judaism Zionistic — just try plying that line of reasoning with members of the self-described orthodox Jewish groups cited in my post above(!).
I am aware of the so called "True Torah Jews" who dissent from Israel. That is a relatively small faction. Their beef is in the secularism of the government of Israel, and blame it for causing problems with Muslims. But if you are aware of Jewish scripture, you will find countless longings for Jerusalem and the Promise Land. Even Bob Marley could have told you that.

Anyway, Charlie Hebdo?
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