Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1261  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:14
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 409
Groaned at 164 Times in 119 Posts
Thanked 1,291 Times in 702 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Firstly, because there is a global Muslim community/Ummah, however weak. It exists and Israel harms Muslims, and that's it. As far as Pakistanis are concerned, there is a huge amount of illiteracy and tribalism there to the extent that I'd do specific research into the individual before I started attributing any actions to the fact that they think they're Muslim.



Of course, and black slavery in the US is widely discussed but the fate of Africans in Africa isn't. I'd look at it the opposite way though - unfortunately the Arab world and Africa are looked at as black holes by the west, where no one can help them because they're essentially savages who can't help themselves. Of course this is untrue but it's in that direct that a lot of the prejudice lies.
1. If there is a Muslim Ummah which feels injured by the existence of a tiny Jewish state (which treats it's Muslim citizens better their Muslim countries treat theirs), then this Ummah should feel responsible whenever there is a Muslim terrorist attack (practicaly all day, every day) - you can't have it both ways. remember than next time you see a huge Muslim rally against Israel.

2. I agree - concentrating on Israel is double-racist: Antisemitic and Anti Arab (the racism of low expectations).
Reply With Quote
  #1262  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:53
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
...if you are aware of Jewish scripture, you will find countless longings for Jerusalem and the Promise Land...
...counterbalanced in Jewish scripture with multiple promises of eviction (see Lev. 18:26-28; 20:22; Deut. 28:63-66, among others), which rather unequivocally transpired most recently at the hands of the Romans in 70 AD (see the section of history written by Jewish historian Flavius Josephus "Wars of the Jews" - here is one of multiple online references [kindly ignore the poster's early references to Christian scriptures]).

Bottom line: even in the Jewish scriptures (longings aside), possession of Jerusalem and the 'Promised Land' were conditional, not unconditionally perpetual.

(Charlie Hebdo or not — I'll stop opposing Zionism here when it stops being defended here.)
Reply With Quote
  #1263  
Old 16.01.2015, 19:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
As always, ignorance of the culture, politics and history of the journal lead to false statements in the international press. Just stop reading anything not written by French people about Charlie Hebdo.
I wonder if Latifa is allowed to talk about what has been happening in France- is she French enough for you? Not the best article about her volunteerwor, but the only one in English so far.

http://www.bloomberg.com/…/paris-killings-leave-france-trou…


Some people on the other hand have no shame- sales of Charlie H current or older mags are selling for ridiculous prices on the Net- and a whole array of other stuff like t-shirts, mugs, etc. Investments for people who never seen or read Charlie H- as said before, a farce, a shameful farce.

Last edited by Odile; 16.01.2015 at 20:11.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #1264  
Old 16.01.2015, 20:14
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Bottom line: even in the Jewish scriptures (longings aside), possession of Jerusalem and the 'Promised Land' were conditional, not unconditionally perpetual.
So their possession of Jerusalem implies the condition has been meant. Or do you propose to be the judge of the Jews? The longing itself is Judaism.
Reply With Quote
  #1265  
Old 16.01.2015, 20:23
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
So their possession of Jerusalem implies the condition has been meant. Or do you propose to be the judge of the Jews? The longing itself is Judaism.
Is the modern secular state of Israel's "possession" of Jerusalem somehow proof of (secular) Israel's obedience to the Jewish scriptures? (For example, are sacrifices again being carried out according to the unequivocal requirements of the Jewish scriptures?)

Otherwise, on exactly what basis would you like to suggest that any "condition" has been "met" — other than purely human aggression — entitling the secular state of Israel to occupy territory originally granted conditionally/tentatively (according to the Jewish scriptures) to obedient (i.e., spiritual — not secular) Jews?

(Keep digging — I've got all the time in the world.)
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #1266  
Old 16.01.2015, 20:37
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Is the modern secular state of Israel's "possession" of Jerusalem somehow proof of (secular) Israel's obedience to the Jewish scriptures? (For example, are sacrifices again being carried out according to the unequivocal requirements of the Jewish scriptures?)

Otherwise, on exactly what basis would you like to suggest that any "condition" has been "met" — other than purely human aggression — entitling the secular state of Israel to occupy territory originally granted conditionally/tentatively (according to the Jewish scriptures) to obedient (i.e., spiritual — not secular) Jews?

(Keep digging — I've got all the time in the world.)
Well you tell me. You're the one with the claim they don't belong there because they haven't met some conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #1267  
Old 16.01.2015, 20:48
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,043
Groaned at 98 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,977 Times in 1,424 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Well you tell me. You're the one with the claim they don't belong there because they haven't met some conditions.
I'm making no claim other than to show that the Jewish scriptures don't promise unconditional or perpetual possession or ownership of the land. I have yet to observe a compelling, let alone plausible, argument to the contrary — particularly based on the Jewish scriptures.

I'm still waiting.
Reply With Quote
  #1268  
Old 16.01.2015, 22:53
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 3,459
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,715 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

France awards citizenship to Malian man (Lassana Bathily) who hid hostages in fridge during the Kosher market hostage taking in Paris.

http://mashable.com/2015/01/15/paris...1uZDFnZHFtMCJ9


Nice gesture.
Reply With Quote
  #1269  
Old 16.01.2015, 22:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Post 1180 last night- keep up a the back.

Yes, nicel.
Reply With Quote
  #1270  
Old 16.01.2015, 23:01
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 3,459
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,715 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Post 1180 last night- keep up a the back.

Yes, nicel.
Only went back two pages to check. My time is precious you know.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Verbier for this useful post:
  #1271  
Old 17.01.2015, 00:17
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,061
Groaned at 77 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 5,269 Times in 2,054 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

The anti-muslim hate speech starts to have first impacts this week:

- muslim eritrean stabbed to death in Dresden

- muslim saudi PhD student stabbed to death in Essex

- muslim 47 years old stabbed to death in his house in Vaucluse (south france) by a 28y shouting "death to muslims"

In all three cases police mentions racist motive. Add to the list attacks on mosques (arsons, tags, profanation). Constant stigmatization of a community leads to this violence. The pestilential hatred speeches lead to murders....in both directions. I hope that those who convey these messages online, on social media platforms or offline will be punished.
__________________
-I'm back in town
Reply With Quote
  #1272  
Old 17.01.2015, 00:53
Castro's Avatar
ŕ la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,768
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,703 Times in 4,142 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
So their possession of Jerusalem implies the condition has been meant. Or do you propose to be the judge of the Jews? The longing itself is Judaism.
A good place to start would be to read the views of Neturei Karta who claim to represent the 'position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism' and then work your way along the chain to those who claim the conditions for a Jewish State have been met. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #1273  
Old 17.01.2015, 01:19
meister's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 172
Groaned at 30 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 130 Times in 58 Posts
meister has earned some respectmeister has earned some respect
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

This is probably one of the best sermon about the recent events from a prominent Muslim brother.

http://youtu.be/SzP8e9b_OT8
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meister for this useful post:
  #1274  
Old 17.01.2015, 01:20
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,529 Times in 4,672 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
The anti-muslim hate speech starts to have first impacts this week:

- muslim eritrean stabbed to death in Dresden

- muslim saudi PhD student stabbed to death in Essex

- muslim 47 years old stabbed to death in his house in Vaucluse (south france) by a 28y shouting "death to muslims"

In all three cases police mentions racist motive. Add to the list attacks on mosques (arsons, tags, profanation). Constant stigmatization of a community leads to this violence. The pestilential hatred speeches lead to murders....in both directions. I hope that those who convey these messages online, on social media platforms or offline will be punished.
Terrible
Hope they catch the murderers.
Reply With Quote
  #1275  
Old 17.01.2015, 01:27
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 70
Groaned at 42 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 82 Posts
farmadoc has earned some respectfarmadoc has earned some respect
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
A good place to start would be to read the views of Neturei Karta who claim to represent the 'position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism' and then work your way along the chain to those who claim the conditions for a Jewish State have been met. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Neterei Karta is to Judaism as the KKK is to Christianity. Just sayin
Reply With Quote
  #1276  
Old 17.01.2015, 01:29
Castro's Avatar
ŕ la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,768
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,703 Times in 4,142 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Neterei Karta is to Judaism as the KKK is to Christianity. Just sayin
According to Phos ISIL and other scary takfiri nutcases are an authentic voice within the Muslim experience... or something like that
Reply With Quote
  #1277  
Old 17.01.2015, 01:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 70
Groaned at 42 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 82 Posts
farmadoc has earned some respectfarmadoc has earned some respect
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
According to Phos ISIL and other scary takfiri nutcases are an authentic voice within the Muslim experience... or something like that
They're genuine Muslims but 99% of their thoughts and actions are un- or anti-Islamic.

One of the things that the Islamic global community could do is to admit that the penetration of Islam into so-called Islamic countries is less than complete. Once again, education, education, education. An illiterate from the mountains is going to know little more than the name of his religion and the pre-Islamic rules his tribe adheres to. For him to then be the loudest voice in Islam, even for a day, needs to be solved.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank farmadoc for this useful post:
  #1278  
Old 17.01.2015, 01:47
Castro's Avatar
ŕ la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,768
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,703 Times in 4,142 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Speaking of Fox News, here are some hilarious tweets in response to Fox's report on Birmingham.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...newsfacts.html
The gift that keeps on giving [laughs]


Christian Bale brutally beaten by Moslem jehadists after he refused to change his name to Muslim Bale. #foxnewsfacts


Having recently found Islam,England's Queen Elizabeth now ritually beheads apostates weekly,live on TV #foxnewsfacts


A typical street corner in Birmingham UK. Muslims have started naming buildings after their holy sites #FoxNewsFacts


Brighton now also a caliphate. See the giant mosque. #foxnewsfacts


The Queen is now being forced to wear a hijab by 'Moslems' due to the sharia law enforcement in the UK #foxnewsfacts


White boys are now being made to wear the Islamic dress code due to sharia law enforcements in the uk #foxnewsfacts

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #1279  
Old 17.01.2015, 02:03
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
According to Phos ISIL and other scary takfiri nutcases are an authentic voice within the Muslim experience... or something like that
Castro, its not according to me. Its according to them, and according to all those that support them, who are Muslims. ISIS movements are very interesting in its alignment to Islamic prophecies; e.g., the importance of Syria, the placements in Yemen, and the establishment of the Caliphate according to end times prophecies. I can post references if desired.

Also, none of this can really be addressed by military action, particularly the west. These need an ideological and theological counter narrative. Such a counter cannot come from Washington. It must come from the Ummah. It does not help for the Ummah to disassociate itself from this, and resign to it as some sort of CIA creation. It is Muslims who are being hurt by this. I really do think it is Muslims who need to step up on confronting it. Not to accept blame for it, but simply to take responsibility for it.

If only the same outrage to cartoons is expressed when all the incredible offensive violence is displayed, this would not grow as large as it is now. As it is, it gets global support from the Muslim world.

Its not a matter of convincing me or others this is not Islam. Its a matter of convincing them.
Reply With Quote
  #1280  
Old 17.01.2015, 02:09
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 70
Groaned at 42 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 82 Posts
farmadoc has earned some respectfarmadoc has earned some respect
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Castro, its not according to me. Its according to them, and according to all those that support them, who are Muslims. ISIS movements are very interesting in its alignment to Islamic prophecies; e.g., the importance of Syria, the placements in Yemen, and the establishment of the Caliphate according to end times prophecies. I can post references if desired.

Also, none of this can really be addressed by military action, particularly the west. These need an ideological and theological counter narrative. Such a counter cannot come from Washington. It must come from the Ummah. It does not help for the Ummah to disassociate itself from this, and resign to it as some sort of CIA creation. It is Muslims who are being hurt by this. I really do think it is Muslims who need to step up on confronting it. Not to accept blame for it, but simply to take responsibility for it.

If only the same outrage to cartoons is expressed when all the incredible offensive violence is displayed, this would not grow as large as it is now. As it is, it gets global support from the Muslim world.

Its not a matter of convincing me or others this is not Islam. Its a matter of convincing them.
Going mental when Muhammed is depicted is unIslamic. That's a simple fact and can be easily proven.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charlie hebdo




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PHOTO SHOOTINGS with 100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEE! Aline.marandet Commercial 2 07.03.2014 14:17
Post office in France (Divonne) - open tomorrow? idefix General off-topic 3 01.11.2012 16:19
UK Passport office in France - a cautionary tale maxhd Complaints corner 21 07.09.2010 10:34
The Cumbria shootings eng_ch International affairs/politics 8 05.06.2010 00:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0