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  #141  
Old 26.01.2015, 19:48
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Re: Smokers in Germany

I find any sorts of addicts are generally selfish, maybe not all of them, as some wouldn't smoke near children.

To be honest, I don't know why the law did not extend to prohibiting smoking in public places and not just restaurants and bars!

I find it quite entertaining when smokers come up with an argument defending themselves of something that's harmful to them and others around them, is unhygienic and awful smelling. I bet it's also costing the good old NHS a lot of money and considering that now it's almost socially unacceptable to smoke near people especially children, the days of smoking in public places are numbered.

I wonder what they'll come up with next? Probably start quoting smoking is part of "freedom of expression" with a banner "I'm a smoker".

I also think it's pathetic that they don't have the will power to give up, as if someone really forced them to start smoking in the first place or as if it is something that tastes nice or beneficial to their health.

I'm very certain that the days of smoking in public places are soon going to come to an end.
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  #142  
Old 26.01.2015, 19:50
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Re: Smokers in Germany

NHS? In Switzerland?

Insane zealot is insane.
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  #143  
Old 26.01.2015, 20:13
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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I'm very certain that the days of smoking in public places are soon going to come to an end.


Tom
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  #144  
Old 26.01.2015, 20:35
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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NHS? In Switzerland?

Insane zealot is insane.
You're the only zealot on this thread.

You want people to feel the same way as you do about smokers.

The rest of us don't want people to feel the way we do. Well I don't anyway.

I just want smokers to be more considerate and less self-righteous about it (yes I know the law says you can smoke here but perhaps a bit more self-control wouldn't go amiss).

You don't smoke so what I write on this thread really has no relevance to you.
I don't want you to feel the way I do so I'm not a zealot by modern definition.

Can you see the difference?

I'm sure all the smokers feel most humble that they can't speak up for themselves and you have to do it for them. Well done you!

But next time use words you fully understand. OK?
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  #145  
Old 26.01.2015, 20:38
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Re: Smokers in Germany

lol

u mad
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  #146  
Old 26.01.2015, 20:56
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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I'd most likely ignore it. A few puffs of smoke from a cigarette aren't going to do much harm.


And if my children were upset by the smoke, we'd move.


I'm really struggling to see the problem here.

A chap working in the company on the ground floor often smoked right below my flat. As fate goes I often had to water my flowers at the same time by coincidence. He started then to go onto the Trottoir to smoke
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  #147  
Old 26.01.2015, 22:32
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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The gobby, bullying minority, more like.

Drinkers, fat people and those of you who don't think and believe correctly: you're next!
And while your at it don't forget to add all those damned foreigners that need to be deported too...
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  #148  
Old 26.01.2015, 22:41
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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Well to take a real life example from the past, sitting in a 4 person cable car with my two kids (at least they were kids then) with a smoker who insisted as there was no sign prohibiting smoking (it had been scratched off) he was entitled to smoke.

Can't get out of that mid-journey.
Why didn't you open the window and push him out? No sign saying you can't do that either was there?

Honestly it seems that some Swiss smokers are really taking it to the limit. Perhaps it's a Swiss thing, everywhere else I go around the world the vast majority of smokers are much more courteous than expressed here in this post and my experience is that if I have to ask someone not to smoke next to me they have obliged graciously.
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  #149  
Old 26.01.2015, 23:25
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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Honestly it seems that some Swiss smokers are really taking it to the limit. Perhaps it's a Swiss thing, everywhere else I go around the world the vast majority of smokers are much more courteous than expressed here in this post and my experience is that if I have to ask someone not to smoke next to me they have obliged graciously.
I'm not sure it is a Swiss thing. I think it's just that smoking here is like it was in the sixties and seventies in the U.K.

I thought it was quite quaint when we arrived here to see so many people smoking pipes and cigars when out and about.

If you had asked someone not to smoke in the U.K. back then you would have probably got the same indignation.

But a hell of a lot has changed here in the last six years or so. All the people I know who used to go out for a cigar or cigarette after a meal no longer smoke at all.
Things are definitely changing whether the smokers like it or not. (and it's nothing to do with me as I cannot vote).
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  #150  
Old 26.01.2015, 23:58
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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And while your at it don't forget to add all those damned foreigners that need to be deported too...
Indeed, especially if they are non smokers.

Tom
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  #151  
Old 27.01.2015, 00:07
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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Why didn't you open the window and push him out? No sign saying you can't do that either was there?
Wasn't big enough for him. Was for his fag though
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  #152  
Old 27.01.2015, 00:20
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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[...] I bet it's also costing the good old NHS a lot of money [...]
Eh? Did you wander in here by mistake?
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  #153  
Old 27.01.2015, 01:33
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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I'm not sure it is a Swiss thing. I think it's just that smoking here is like it was in the sixties and seventies in the U.K.

I thought it was quite quaint when we arrived here to see so many people smoking pipes and cigars when out and about.

If you had asked someone not to smoke in the U.K. back then you would have probably got the same indignation.

But a hell of a lot has changed here in the last six years or so. All the people I know who used to go out for a cigar or cigarette after a meal no longer smoke at all.
Things are definitely changing whether the smokers like it or not. (and it's nothing to do with me as I cannot vote).

In the 70ies, Smoking in the UK was as it had been in Switzerland in the 1950ies
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  #154  
Old 27.01.2015, 13:28
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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I'm sure that has far more to do with a changing demographic and their desires considering non-smokers eat as much as smokers do, in addition to having more disposable and real income on average.


And in your theory, where did the non-smokers go?
Sure, they both eat. Except for the difference that smokers will go to a restaurant to "hang-out", drink coffee, have a smoke, read the papers while smoking, chat to their buddies, spending more time, ordering more coffee, having another smoke, more coffee, another smoke, etc.
Then along come more old buddies and they all decide to eat something, order more drinks, have a smoke while waiting for their food, linger after eating for their after-eating smoke.

And the older generation (the old guys over 75) used to meet up regularly at their Stammtisch`s to play Jass, drink beer/wine/coffee, and play their card game ......while smoking cigarettes or Stumpen, a couple mornings a week, a couple evenings a week, & Sunday mornings.

Sadly, the non-smokers just do not contribute enough to keep the restaurants in business.

I know this from particular owners who lament the passing of the previous era. They try all sorts of things to attract the smokers back ..... erecting roofs and wind shields on their terraces, installing those mushroom gas heaters in winter. That still is not enough to compensate for the loss in business revenue.

And now for another view of the situation: In our next door German town (only 3kms away) TWO restaurants are coining the Swiss restaurant business, so much so, that the owners bought the businesses next door to their pubs - joining them to their pubs, to provide the regulated non-smoking area, which enabled them to keep their original smoker pubs open.
Bearing in mind that the smoker area must be restricted to 1/4 the size of the non-smoker area - they have invested in buildings (beautifully decorated, waiting and ready to receive the non-smokers for dining) - that stand empty and bring in NO revenue! Revenue comes from the smoking side.

They`ve even installed the traditional "Stammtisch`s" for the old guys, with the Blacksmithed over-sized ashtray and bell.

The one restaurant has now renovated another next door building to provide an overnight B&B for (mainly Swiss) guests wanting to "sleep it off".

So, as to "my opinion of where the smokers have gone"? - They`ve gone either to each other`s houses (garages/barns/etc converted to comfortable "party rooms", or over the border to where business owners have found loopholes to keep their paying regular customers.
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  #155  
Old 27.01.2015, 13:41
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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Sure, they both eat. Except for the difference that smokers will go to a restaurant to "hang-out", drink coffee, have a smoke, read the papers while smoking, chat to their buddies, spending more time, ordering more coffee, having another smoke, more coffee, another smoke, etc.
Then along come more old buddies and they all decide to eat something, order more drinks, have a smoke while waiting for their food, linger after eating for their after-eating smoke.

And the older generation (the old guys over 75) used to meet up regularly at their Stammtisch`s to play Jass, drink beer/wine/coffee, and play their card game ......while smoking cigarettes or Stumpen, a couple mornings a week, a couple evenings a week, & Sunday mornings.

Sadly, the non-smokers just do not contribute enough to keep the restaurants in business.

I know this from particular owners who lament the passing of the previous era. They try all sorts of things to attract the smokers back ..... erecting roofs and wind shields on their terraces, installing those mushroom gas heaters in winter. That still is not enough to compensate for the loss in business revenue.
Because maybe they're chasing yesterday's clientele rather than embracing tomorrow's?

Do you think people who don't smoke don't enjoy having a beer at a Stammtisch or playing Jass? Because they were never made to feel especially welcome in the smoking pubs of the past, these people have have long ago transitioned to meeting at one another's homes and playing and drinking there. The challenge is to attract them back into the pub. So pub owners need to show some innovation here. How about staging a Jass-turnier? Or a beer tasting event with a range of craft brews and an expert to present them? Or how about a let's all play Monopoly night? Or a Ländler night (adapt to age group and demographic you're trying to attract)? UK pubs. for example, have been pretty innovative in offering events rather than just being a dull place to drink overpriced cheap beer. One or two have here, but most are still living in the illusion that if they keep on doing the same they will one day get a different result.
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  #156  
Old 27.01.2015, 14:18
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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Because maybe they're chasing yesterday's clientele rather than embracing tomorrow's?
Most churches are also losing their congregations. The average age in our local one is probably around seventy.

It's not really because they banned smoking in churches recently.

People change. Old people retire, or die or go to one of those homes and younger people don't want to do the same thing or feel the same way.
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Old 27.01.2015, 14:28
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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Because maybe they're chasing yesterday's clientele rather than embracing tomorrow's?

Do you think people who don't smoke don't enjoy having a beer at a Stammtisch or playing Jass? Because they were never made to feel especially welcome in the smoking pubs of the past, these people have have long ago transitioned to meeting at one another's homes and playing and drinking there. The challenge is to attract them back into the pub. So pub owners need to show some innovation here. How about staging a Jass-turnier? Or a beer tasting event with a range of craft brews and an expert to present them? Or how about a let's all play Monopoly night? Or a Ländler night (adapt to age group and demographic you're trying to attract)? UK pubs. for example, have been pretty innovative in offering events rather than just being a dull place to drink overpriced cheap beer. One or two have here, but most are still living in the illusion that if they keep on doing the same they will one day get a different result.
I`m sorry, but enboldened sections of your post doesn`t make any sense to me.

You are saying non-smokers also enjoy to play Jass? Yes, of course they did. Why have they abandoned the Stammtisch that is now smoke-free?

Next you say they did not feel welcome, and proceeded to private entertainment in their own homes? And now need to be enticed back? (the non-smokers?)

I really thought the idea of banning smoking in restaurants was to entice the non-smokers back? Who should be overwhelmingly happy at having entire restaurants now free of smoke and at their service?

It is the smokers who need to be enticed back, methinks? Those who linger and order more? Non-smokers don`t linger - they eat/drink and go.

One good (and healthy?) thing is that families can now eat out in restaurants with their children without having grumpy old men complaining about the racket of kids running/crawling/spilling drinks/etc.
Parents used to only be able to do that in McDonalds!

And to confuse me further you state that offering games is an "illusory" tactic? - so why mention them if they don`t work to enrich restaurants losing customers?
Revenue is what counts, and that translates into "more customers who consume".
More restrictive regulations results in less customers.
People are not that desperate to restrict their own personal habits under draconian measures - (standing outside like Pariahs to have their smoke, merely to be able to fraternise with some friends over a beer/coffee)

Tis the smokers who`ve moved to their own homes for entertaining their friends and enjoying their leisure with their habits, in comfortable surroundings.
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Old 27.01.2015, 14:31
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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I really thought the idea of banning smoking in restaurants was to entice the non-smokers back

.
No, it was so restaurant staff could go to work in a smoke-free environment.
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Old 27.01.2015, 14:47
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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I`m sorry, but enboldened sections of your post doesn`t make any sense to me.

You are saying non-smokers also enjoy to play Jass? Yes, of course they did. Why have they abandoned the Stammtisch that is now smoke-free?
They abandoned the Stammtisch many many years ago, long before it became smoke free. They have since forgotten about it. It no longer figures among the options that they consider. They're not going to come back because the rules have changed. Somebody needs to reach out to bring them back. As I said, restaurants and pubs are not very good at being innovative.

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Next you say they did not feel welcome, and proceeded to private entertainment in their own homes? And now need to be enticed back? (the non-smokers?)
Yes. You said the smokers were now going elsewhere. I said, yes, but so are the non smokers. Odds are, smoking laws are going to get even stricter. These tent and heater things are only a compromise. So why build your future on something that's on it way out (and you probably won't be allowed to do in 15 years time) when you could build it on something that's up and coming. To me it's about your strategy, do you want to build for the future or do you want to survive with the shreds you can hold onto from the past?

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I really thought the idea of banning smoking in restaurants was to entice the non-smokers back? Who should be overwhelmingly happy at having entire restaurants now free of smoke and at their service?
If Ryanair stopped being cheap tomorrow, do you think the business travellers would be on their plane the day after? These things take time and marketing and innovative thinking.

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It is the smokers who need to be enticed back, methinks? Those who linger and order more? Non-smokers don`t linger - they eat/drink and go.
Not so. If people are made to feel welcome they linger. And if a non smoker lingers and orders another beer, or a coffee or a Rivella, that is some income for the pub. Cigarettes are probably bought elsewhere. I don't see any reason why a smoker lingers more than a non smoker other than that its acceptable to sit and not order anything as long as you're smoking - on the odd chance that you might order something later. But isn't it in the hands of restaurant owners to change that perception?

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And to confuse me further you state that offering games is an "illusory" tactic? - so why mention them if they don`t work to enrich restaurants losing customers?
Revenue is what counts, and that translates into "more customers who consume".
and smoke creates revenue?

A game engages people and makes them stay. It would be rude and inconsiderate to walk away in the middle of the game. That would be letting down the other players. So having a game guarantees that most people who are there when you begin will still be there at the end. This is why so many pubs do quiz nights. And the longer people stay in the pub, the more (on average) they will consume.

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Old 27.01.2015, 16:16
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Re: Smokers in Germany

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No, it was so restaurant staff could go to work in a smoke-free environment.
I always found that the most funny argument of them all. 99% of the restaurant/bar/club staff are smokers (at least in Belgium that was the case).
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