Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 22.01.2015, 23:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,971
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

despite decades of trying to convince myself otherwise, I remain hopelessly bearish on the concept of "rehabilitation".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 22.01.2015, 23:33
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 4,773
Groaned at 91 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 12,711 Times in 4,143 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

It seems like the bleeding heart Danes are also in on the act.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 22.01.2015, 23:51
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

By the way, I do believe in the value of the rehabilitated. The best intelligence we have on these movements, their ideologies and their inner workings have been from former members and defectors. In regards to the on-going conversations, I particularly appreciate Maajid Nawaz's contributions.

Except not everyone is rehabilitable.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 23.01.2015, 00:29
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
It seems like the bleeding heart Danes are also in on the act.
I just realised the title does not say "and free drinks"
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 23.01.2015, 01:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,120
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,085 Times in 3,290 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
Let me clarify my statement: when I say "I don't see any rehabilitation possible", I mean "I don't think that the option of rehab should even be offered to them". Of course it could work, but what entitles them to even have the option?
.............................
Also - disaffected youth my a$$. What about personal responsibility for your actions? Not that the following matters to the discussion, but I hear this too often. I wish I had the time to be disaffected back in the day, but alas, I was busy studying and working 3 jobs with the hope of defying all stereotypes and make something out of a small-village girl born in a blue-collar family. Maybe I should have said "scr** all this, I'll be an irresponsible idiot instead and then someone will bail me out at the end."

If we don't learn that actions have consequences, and we are personally responsible for our actions, what kind of message are we sending out???
Some people have more rights.

And yes, thinking of it: I wish I had the time to sit on my a*** and contemplate having an existential crisis ...

Last edited by greenmount; 23.01.2015 at 01:49.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 23.01.2015, 09:33
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,147
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,738 Times in 9,484 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post


Police in Sweden have been armed for 50 years!
The Swedish police have been armed since 1965.
Sorry, got confused with Norway.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 23.01.2015, 09:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 3,621
Groaned at 456 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 2,958 Times in 1,475 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
Thanks, I got your point the first time. Lets say either way you could prove that that person wasn't a murderer. Do you think he shouldnt be rehabilitated if he was sorry and showed a willingness to do so?
Well then, if the proofing method is 100% sure, then we should discuss about the meaning of "rehabilitation".

If it's just giving them a job and insert them directly in the society, discriminating others then no.

But if "rehabilitation" means: jail (or special centre which remove them from society for a while) + some education, then maybe.

Meaning that they should still be punished, with an "option" to prove their worth, and give them a conditional "opportunity".

Then that as far as "rehabilitation" goes.
And again, I repeat, those people had their entire life to educate and do better, yet they have chosen the wrong path and crossed the line.

And, to open another debate, I'd take the example of the idiots who killed Charlie's hebdo' staff and some civilians:
In France they had their entire schooling free + social money + free university and some free grants to study at university level.

So we are talking an opportunity of free education which is not existing in many other countries.
Yet, they have chosen to ignore that and become criminals.

To what extend (cost + will) should you try to "rehabilitate" those persons?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:00
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

A 1 EUR worth of 1 7.62mm bullet in the back of the head is the proper AND ONLY rehabilitation for these terrorists.

I read few weeks back that Switzerland will take away citizenship for Swiss people who join Jihad and deport them. That is actually what I proposed a month or so ago, people called me stupid.

For the rest of you who believe in "rehabilitation" and all the other jerk off BS the lefties are serving you, feel free to take all the Jihadist and put them in your communes, kindergartens, police, government bodies and let's see in 10 years how their "rehabilitation" will pan out.

But do it far away from me thanks.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank idefix for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:00
Meeyat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 680
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 874 Times in 349 Posts
Meeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post

Yes. He knows what a gun is and what it does so no excuse of "oh, he's just a child". He's probably much more "grown up" than most Western children of his age.
Medea, are you serious? I mean, really, in which sense is the child on the picture much more "grown up" then our, Western, children? If you recall, in most of the civilized world the children under certain age are NOT treated as adults in front of the law, exactly because they are, well, children. It is one of the beauties of our civilization - to acknowledge that children are having their rights, they can not be prosecuted as they do not understand right from wrong and are not fully aware of the consequences, they can not vote nor work full time, they have the right to go to school, etc.

If you believe that 5 year old should be executed because he knows what a gun is, I think you seriously need help.


On another note, program in Denmark has been considered largely a success. (source - from the latest Time magazine). It works.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Meeyat for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:15
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
A 1 EUR worth of 1 7.62mm bullet in the back of the head is the proper AND ONLY rehabilitation for these terrorists.

I read few weeks back that Switzerland will take away citizenship for Swiss people who join Jihad and deport them. That is actually what I proposed a month or so ago, people called me stupid.

For the rest of you who believe in "rehabilitation" and all the other jerk off BS the lefties are serving you, feel free to take all the Jihadist and put them in your communes, kindergartens, police, government bodies and let's see in 10 years how their "rehabilitation" will pan out.

But do it far away from me thanks.
About "take away citizenship for Swiss people who join Jihad and deport them." I do not want to discuss if this is a good approach. I just wonder if this is practical? I do not see how Switzerland would persuade any other country to accept the deportation of a jihadist?
It is not like sending convicts to Australia when UK owned the country.

You can only deport people if the other country accepts them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:23
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
About "take away citizenship for Swiss people who join Jihad and deport them." I do not want to discuss if this is a good approach. I just wonder if this is practical? I do not see how Switzerland would persuade any other country to accept the deportation of a jihadist?
It is not like sending convicts to Australia when UK owned the country.

You can only deport people if the other country accepts them.
I am pretty sure the government in Syria would love to get their hands on them.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:31
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,573 Times in 1,084 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
Well then, if the proofing method is 100% sure, then we should discuss about the meaning of "rehabilitation".

If it's just giving them a job and insert them directly in the society, discriminating others then no.

But if "rehabilitation" means: jail (or special centre which remove them from society for a while) + some education, then maybe.

Meaning that they should still be punished, with an "option" to prove their worth, and give them a conditional "opportunity".


Then that as far as "rehabilitation" goes.
And again, I repeat, those people had their entire life to educate and do better, yet they have chosen the wrong path and crossed the line.

And, to open another debate, I'd take the example of the idiots who killed Charlie's hebdo' staff and some civilians:
In France they had their entire schooling free + social money + free university and some free grants to study at university level.

So we are talking an opportunity of free education which is not existing in many other countries.
Yet, they have chosen to ignore that and become criminals.

To what extend (cost + will) should you try to "rehabilitate" those persons?
thanks very much. my view is much what is in highlights in your post
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:35
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,573 Times in 1,084 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post

I read few weeks back that Switzerland will take away citizenship for Swiss people who join Jihad and deport them. That is actually what I proposed a month or so ago, people called me stupid.
do you have a link for the first sentence? not the second.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:41
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
do you have a link for the first sentence? not the second.
It was on the TV but there is already a law that can grant this

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...208/index.html

b. Revocation

Art. 48


The Federal Office may with consent of the authority in the canton of origin revoke the Swiss, cantonal and communal citizenship of a person holding dual nationality if his or her conduct is seriously detrimental to the interests or the reputation of Switzerland.

So Syria here we come! Assad will be happy!
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:45
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zug, CH
Posts: 2,840
Groaned at 155 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 5,382 Times in 1,839 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Man. I thought I was something of a hardass, but some of you people have some really extremist views. Shoot 'em? Killing is the only solution? Sounds a bit jihadist, if you ask me.

Of course, it's ok when it's your extremist views.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Corbets for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:46
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
On another note, program in Denmark has been considered largely a success. (source - from the latest Time magazine). It works.
By whom, and what is this measure of success?


Quote:
View Post
Of course, it's ok when it's your extremist views.
Which is likely where this situation is headed. Politics is a pendulum. Pulling it too far in any direction causes it to swing back just as far in the other direction.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:51
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
Man. I thought I was something of a hardass, but some of you people have some really extremist views. Shoot 'em? Killing is the only solution? Sounds a bit jihadist, if you ask me.

Of course, it's ok when it's your extremist views.
So your solution is to put them in the government, commune, police etc etc? Really?!

I don't have a problem with people of any religion, color etc to be part of my society. I have a problem with brainwashed wits that kill innocent people that did absolutely nothing to them or anybody. Imagine one morning you arrive at work, just like any other day, boom, you are killed. You have a family, all your life in front of you? Why should we let such things happen?

It's not extremist to say that we need to get rid of them for good. They are people that mass murder, slaughter etc so they don't deserve for us to pay them jail nor rehabilitate them.

If you are happy to live with them by your side and rehabilitate them, fine. I certainly won't accept that.

So no, my views are not extremist, they are just REALITY.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,120
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,085 Times in 3,290 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
Man. I thought I was something of a hardass, but some of you people have some really extremist views. Shoot 'em? Killing is the only solution? Sounds a bit jihadist, if you ask me.

Of course, it's ok when it's your extremist views.
Distorting what has been said here, much?
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:56
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
I am pretty sure the government in Syria would love to get their hands on them.

This actually is sensible and righteous. If someone committed a crime in Iraq or Syria, they ought to be extradited and tried where the crime was committed.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 23.01.2015, 10:57
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,573 Times in 1,084 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

Quote:
View Post
It was on the TV but there is already a law that can grant this

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...208/index.html

b. Revocation

Art. 48


The Federal Office may with consent of the authority in the canton of origin revoke the Swiss, cantonal and communal citizenship of a person holding dual nationality if his or her conduct is seriously detrimental to the interests or the reputation of Switzerland.

So Syria here we come! Assad will be happy!
I missed the bit about Jihadis being deported back to Syria in your link? Was the law revised following the emergence of ISIS?

What if the citizen is Swiss born and bred, where in that link does it say that he can be deported to Syria?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US kill over 1147 people with drones... to get to 41 terrorists. Treverus International affairs/politics 147 07.12.2014 12:01
They do not want to speak French even if they can... happyrobbie Language corner 63 05.09.2014 18:03
5 years to get a C permit: what if i leave and come back ? varioplus Permits/visas/government 3 20.09.2012 19:48
Can they cut his salary and what if this leads to stress leave? sloaneytiger Employment 0 21.10.2009 20:52


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0