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  #101  
Old 23.01.2015, 11:58
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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No, I think most people understand very well what is happening and can make their own opinion. Don't make the mistake to conclude that if it's not happening on EF (and it's not), there aren't serious discussions on this subject. And it's not about extremist measures here or accusing all people who happen to follow the same religion (that would be absurd).
Oh, I don't at all. But many of the posts here sound to be totally clueless of that dimension, and appear to come from a bubble. Like I said in earlier post on another thread, mainstream media is for entertainment and advertising. The important conversations take place behind closed doors.
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  #102  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:01
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Just to make it very clear to you no European country (or Canada, Australia, S.Africa, New Zeland etc..) will ever extradite a person if there is any chance that they may either be tortured or face capital punishment. It will NEVER happen, so get it out of your head.
This is true, although laws can change as reality and situations change. One thing for sure, we can't sit around with gaping legal loopholes that are to our own detriment.
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  #103  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:02
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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do you think that the Swiss authorities will deport a Swiss National with a Heimat Ort of Chur to Assad's Authorities in Syria because he is a Jihadist?
I really hope they will in the near future

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Perhaps you should go over and live in Syria since you seem to be such a fan of biblical/Shariah justice. Just to make it very clear to you no European country (or Canada, Australia, S.Africa, New Zeland etc..) will ever extradite a person if there is any chance that they may either be tortured or face capital punishment. It will NEVER happen, so get it out of your head.
So basically, I go and kill bunch of people in the center of Geneva after being in training in Syria for few months. Now, what will I get? Free food, roof over my head, healthcare etc for life. While you are dead just because you walked on street going home to your family?

Doesn't sound that bad actually. I am sure lots of people will find this life style better than waking up every day and going to a shitty job. that, I'm gonna kill somebody and get a FREE LIFE.

Cut the BS and open your eyes. When shit hits the fun in CH because of these brainwashed wits I am sure you will feel different. Must be comfortable sitting in that chair in a warm office saying "we all should get alnong"

Perhaps YOU should go to Syria and try to rehabilitate them, I see you believe in it?
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  #104  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:06
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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I really hope they will in the near future



So basically, I go and kill bunch of people in the center of Geneva after being in training in Syria for few months. Now, what will I get? Free food, roof over my head, healthcare etc for life. While you are dead just because you walked on street going home to your family?

Doesn't sound that bad actually. I am sure lots of people will find this life style better than waking up every day and going to a shitty job. that, I'm gonna kill somebody and get a FREE LIFE.

Cut the BS and open your eyes. When shit hits the fun in CH because of these brainwashed wits I am sure you will feel different. Must be comfortable sitting in that chair in a warm office saying "we all should get alnong"

Perhaps YOU should go to Syria and try to rehabilitate them, I see you believe in it?
before sending them out to Syria would you first sentence them to 10 years’ imprisonment and 1,000 lashes – 50 at a time over 20 weeks and fine them £175,000?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...dawi-postponed
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  #105  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:10
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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So basically, I go and kill bunch of people in the center of Geneva after being in training in Syria for few months. Now, what will I get? Free food, roof over my head, healthcare etc for life. While you are dead just because you walked on street going home to your family?
Yes, food, roof over head and healthcare is "free" for life in prison.

This thread is based on the complete fantasy that violent crimes will be pardoned. No western government is avoiding going after and prosecuting those committing violent crimes in Syria, or coming back with plans to commit crimes in their home countries. There were several raids all over Europe after the Paris killings.

Last edited by Kosti; 23.01.2015 at 12:27.
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  #106  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:15
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Perhaps you should go over and live in Syria since you seem to be such a fan of biblical/Shariah justice. Just to make it very clear to you no European country (or Canada, Australia, S.Africa, New Zeland etc..) will ever extradite a person if there is any chance that they may either be tortured or face capital punishment. It will NEVER happen, so get it out of your head.
Even less likely when that country is in civil war!
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  #107  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:26
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Also, clearly, revocation/deportation only applies in persons with dual citizenship.

I think the Swiss government is currently far more worried by SNB's Forex tsunami (currently EUR/CHF = .9789 ) than by a few returning disillusioned takfiris.

http://files.newsnetz.ch/story/1/4/6...topelement.jpg
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  #108  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:34
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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This may sound like a radical statement, but a terrorist is nothing more than a criminal. And until we stop thinking of them as being some sort of superhuman or alien species that need different rules from every other scumbag criminal, we will never get anywhere.
A terrorist is nothing more than a criminal? Criminals in our societies generally (of course with statistically rare exceptions) do not commit extreme atrocities in complete disregard of their own lives... they commit crimes according to the goal they are trying to reach and punishment they are willing to receive, and generally only then with the expectation they are going to live to commit crime another day. Criminals don't commit crime for some religious ideals that they have committed their lives and very being to, and that they are willing to die for.

Calling a terrorist "nothing more than a criminal" is a gross, gross understatement if ever I read one. They are in another league, and the moment they join a terrorist group with the aim of killing innocent people (otherwise known as "enemies of Islam") then they deserve treating with the harshest penalties.

Of course I do feel some sympathy for some impressionable teenager that gets recruited and runs off to fight, but that sympathy stops the moment they make the conscious choice of pulling a trigger.
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  #109  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:39
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Yes, food, roof over head and healthcare is "free" for life in prison.

This thread is based on the complete fantasy that violent crimes will be pardoned. No western government is avoiding going after and prosecuting those committing violent crimes in Syria, or coming back with plans to commit crimes in their home countries. There were several raids all over Europe after the Paris killings.
Yes, but how do you know that these (young) people who're playing jihadis now didn't actually commit any crimes in Syria or elsewhere (willingly or not), or don't come back with the plans to commit others? I'm genuinely interested in this answer. They can't prove their innocence, or do they?

On another note, this scenario that they did commit something is not so far fetched.
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  #110  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:49
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Yes, but how do you know that these (young) people who're playing jihadis now didn't actually commit any crimes in Syria or elsewhere (willingly or not), or don't come back with the plans to commit others? I'm genuinely interested in this answer. They can't prove their innocence, or do they?

On another note, this scenario that they did commit something is not so far fetched.
Well, how do we know that you aren't a serial killer of gypsies, hiding out in Switzerland? I have decided to think its not farfetched at all.
Now please prove your innocence.

If western police and intelligence services, after their worldwide immersive dragnet, dont know and cant prove it, period. That is the whole foundation of civilized prosecution and punishment of crime.

Edit: Otherwise we might as well open a Swiss Gitmo. I vote for it to be situated in Ticino. After all we do have a mountain range in between.
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  #111  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:51
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Doesn't sound that bad actually.
So...I get what you're saying and agree with you. It isn't that bad. It isn't a punishment equal to the crime. A punishment equal to the crime would be finding all of the guy's innocent family in Leeds or where ever and lining them up and shooting them. But that wouldn't teach the ISIS guy anything. He'd just think they were lucky to be martyred by the western kufar.

In a civilised society, we're not looking for a punishment equal to the crime because we're not interested in vengeance. We're self interested, we're looking to protect society as a whole. Most of us feel vengeful about what's going on in Syria and Paris and whatnot but how many of us would be happy seeing a terrorist give up, put his hands in the air, made to kneel down and then be executed by a Paris cop on the street? How many of us would be happy walking down the street next to that cop the next day? That's why we don't kill people unless we need to. That's why we don't maintain giant, forgotten-about prison populations. Not for them, for us.
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  #112  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:55
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Edit: Otherwise we might as well open a Swiss Gitmo. I vote for it to be situated in Ticino. After all we do have a mountain range in between.
Yeah, you convinced me.
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  #113  
Old 23.01.2015, 12:56
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

For a better world, we need to get rid of Salafists, Zionists and the remaining Nazis . They are the scums of the earth.

So that Christians, Jews and Muslims can finally live in peace !
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  #114  
Old 23.01.2015, 13:00
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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For a better world, we need to get rid of Salafists
Just 150 million people then. No problem. But I reject your assertion that we should elimination the National Association of Zero Intolerance. My NAZIs are at the forefront of beating intolerance in all it's forms.
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  #115  
Old 23.01.2015, 13:01
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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For a better world, we need to get rid of Salafists, Zionists and the remaining Nazis . They are the scums of the earth.

So that Christians, Jews and Muslims can finally live in peace !
You forgot the worst offenders ... Sunday afternoon lawn mowerers!!
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  #116  
Old 23.01.2015, 13:07
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Well, how do we know that you aren't a serial killer of gypsies, hiding out in Switzerland? I have decided to think its not farfetched at all.
Now please prove your innocence.

If western police and intelligence services, after their worldwide immersive dragnet, dont know and cant prove it, period. That is the whole foundation of civilized prosecution and punishment of crime.

Edit: Otherwise we might as well open a Swiss Gitmo. I vote for it to be situated in Ticino. After all we do have a mountain range in between.
No, it's a fair comment to say that his scenario is not far fetched; recent events in Europe lend credence to it.

However, the important part is how we react to it. We don't give up the values that Phos referenced in his post. We don't assume guilt by association. We don't give up hope in people, or execute 9 innocent men to get 1 guilty man. And, where people are not proven to have committed the murders and rapes that people in this thread are referring to, we don't ostracize them from our society.

To Richdog's point: calling them anything other than criminals glorifies them. It also opens our system of justice to abuse in the name of protecting our freedoms. Terrorists are criminals, just as serial killers are. Discussing it rationally and cooly helps us make intelligent decisions. There is a time when passion and anger can help, but most of the time they get in the way of our ideals - which, I think can be fairly said, is exemplified in some posts in this thread.
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  #117  
Old 23.01.2015, 13:10
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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For a better world, we need to get rid of Salafists, Zionists and the remaining Nazis . They are the scums of the earth.

So that Christians, Jews and Muslims can finally live in peace !
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  #118  
Old 23.01.2015, 13:21
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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It also opens our system of justice to abuse in the name of protecting our freedoms. Terrorists are criminals, just as serial killers are. Discussing it rationally and cooly helps us make intelligent decisions. There is a time when passion and anger can help, but most of the time they get in the way of our ideals - which, I think can be fairly said, is exemplified in some posts in this thread.
Criminal Justice Systems are designed for control, mitigation and deterrence of crime in civilized societies , within a domestic context. I'm not so sure International Terrorism completely fits into this context. International Terrorism are also national security issues, which may supercede local purposes. processes and objectives. We may not actually have appropriate systems to deal with these, hence we saw Guantanamo.

I'm not so sure international terrorism fits civilian criminal justice. But if this is the new norm, perhaps a more appropriate justice system needs to be conceptualized.
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  #119  
Old 23.01.2015, 13:25
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Criminal Justice Systems are designed for control, mitigation and deterrence of crime in civilized societies , within a domestic context. I'm not so sure International Terrorism completely fits into this context. International Terrorism are also national security issues, which may supercede local purposes. processes and objectives. We may not actually have appropriate systems to deal with these, hence we saw Guantanamo.

I'm not so sure international terrorism fits civilian criminal justice. But if this is the new norm, perhaps a more appropriate justice system needs to be conceptualized.
If a group considers itself a military organisation and wages war like a military organisation we should maybe treat them like a military organsiation and put them on trial for war crimes if for example they have executed non combatants or prisoners.
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  #120  
Old 23.01.2015, 14:03
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Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS

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Criminal Justice Systems are designed for control, mitigation and deterrence of crime in civilized societies , within a domestic context. I'm not so sure International Terrorism completely fits into this context. International Terrorism are also national security issues, which may supercede local purposes. processes and objectives. We may not actually have appropriate systems to deal with these, hence we saw Guantanamo.

I'm not so sure international terrorism fits civilian criminal justice. But if this is the new norm, perhaps a more appropriate justice system needs to be conceptualized.
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If a group considers itself a military organisation and wages war like a military organisation we should maybe treat them like a military organsiation and put them on trial for war crimes if for example they have executed non combatants or prisoners.
Agreed... to call them criminals just doesn't cut it... they need to be subject to a different judicial process to what we deem any normal criminal.

It just doesn't make any logical sense to lump in the same category, when they are ultimately so different in their goals, ideals, and what they are willing to do to further them. It's not about glorifying them, it's about treating them as the supremely high threat that they are, people who are willing to kill you and your family in your local coffee shop just to prove an ideal with no material gain.

I would go as far as to say they are a threat to our very civilization (at least in principle) , and am pretty much just waiting for (or at least I would not be surprised if it happened) the day when on of the masterminds behind the major extremist groups somehow manage, no matter after how many years of trying and failing, to get their hands on a nuclear-grade explosive and set it off in a Western metropolis. I think if they had the capability to do so, then it would not be beyond them.

Last edited by Richdog; 23.01.2015 at 14:36.
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