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  #121  
Old 30.01.2015, 02:24
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Re: Greek elections

Concerning Greek debt/defaults:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/28/inve...ose/index.html

You've got to wonder how long the new gov't will last with its promises of raising the minimum wage, creating more gov't jobs, etc, etc.

Greek debt per capita is over 5,000 euro/citizen, just in regards to Germany's portion alone.

Greek bank shares are down 40% since the elections…


Does the EU needs to admit to itself that the Greek money is largely gone?
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  #122  
Old 30.01.2015, 04:52
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Re: Greek elections

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A communist promising everything without being in touch with economic reality, this only has one ending, and it ain't gonna be a good one!

Greeks, if you thought the last 5 years were miserable, wait couple of years under the commi/nazi leadership...2008-2013 will look like kindergarten play compared to what's following now.

Alright, your Chance to be proven right is by 75% but I still hope that he finds the way to useful compromises and useful solutions
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  #123  
Old 30.01.2015, 09:49
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Re: Greek elections

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The crisis has shown that all EU members are not equal partners.
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I think any Romanian or Bulgarian could have already told you that!
Crisis? What crisis? Ever since revolution we are living in a crisis...
Anyhow, re. Austerity and agreements with IMF, two things my countrymen really hate.

Romania was the country with the harshest austerity measures
- monthly state employee pays were cut by 25% and 200.000 employees were laid off just in a few years (I have friends who work in education and health care and it was...tragic! as salaries were low anyway)
-monthly state pensions cut by 15% (even more tragic! criminal it's the proper word.)
- VAT increased from 19% to 24% (wow, good for business, besides we don't have 0 or very low% tax for anything i.e. at least bread or basic products)
-unemployment benefits (and other social benefits) were cut by 15%
-many public hospitals were closed
-less money for anything
And I think there's more, my mom is an accountant and she could talk endlessly about taxes and such.
But guess what: Austerity doesn't help.
And we didn't even have a good period since like '80. There.

P.S. Romanian state still owes foreign creditors 37 billion euro; the private sector owes 64 billion euros (that was for 2013)
- in 2008 our foreign debt was only 11 billion euro plus 61 billion euro for the private sector (banks and other private companies)
Btw, isn't it weird for a country that left communism with 0 foreign debts??? We payed our way through the "golden era", unlike many "brothers in pain".

It's good, and it will be better and better...Blah. E.U. my a**.
And I don't think anyone, ever, ever, will shed a tear for us. Or bail us out.

I frankly hope a Syriza will come along, maybe, just maybe, our politicians will wake up. I think it's the only way.

Last edited by greenmount; 30.01.2015 at 10:37.
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  #124  
Old 30.01.2015, 13:26
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Re: Greek elections

In the open letter the commie boy wrote to the German citizens on 13th of January he openly said:

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So, let me be frank: Greece's debt is currently unsustainable and will never be serviced
http://syriza.net.gr/index.php/en/pr...d-about-greece

I do wonder how he plans on running the country without any fresh money into the economy...But than every communist was very terrible in free market economy!
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  #125  
Old 30.01.2015, 13:32
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Re: Greek elections

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Btw, isn't it weird for a country that left communism with 0 foreign debts??? We payed our way through the "golden era", unlike many "brothers in pain".

It's good, and it will be better and better...Blah. E.U. my a**.
And I don't think anyone, ever, ever, will shed a tear for us. Or bail us out.

I frankly hope a Syriza will come along, maybe, just maybe, our politicians will wake up. I think it's the only way.
So you rather live in the time of Nicolae instead of now?

PS of course you had 0 debt, but also bread and margarine was as rare as a nun in a bikini

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.01.2015 at 14:28. Reason: fixed quoting
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  #126  
Old 30.01.2015, 14:25
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Re: Greek elections

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So you rather live in the time of Nicolae instead of now?
Not me, and you missed the point - the political class needs an wake up call (some successful extreme leftists will give them the chills I guess)... Anyway, there are many people who glorify those times now. Imagine how hard it is for some people, who worked in a factory in 3 shifts (who probably also did night shifts) for 45 years and now have a pension out of which cannot even buy medicines (although they are supposed to be free, as they payed in an universal health care system)...Yeah, we should kill them all, they fulfilled their role... Out with them!

Btw. How things are in ex-Yugoslavia now? Never hear any news from there.

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PS of course you had 0 debt, but also bread and margarine was as rare as a nun in a bikini
Everything we produced in all those many factories during the '80s that don't exist anymore now btw (isn't the French margarine just fine?) was going to exports. That's how we payed our debts.

Last edited by greenmount; 30.01.2015 at 14:50.
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  #127  
Old 30.01.2015, 14:33
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Re: Greek elections

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Not me, and you missed the point - the political class needs an wake up call (some successful extreme leftists will give them the chills I guess)... Anyway, there are many people who glorify those times now. Imagine how hard it is for some people, who worked in a factory in 3 shifts (who probably also did night shifts) for 45 years and now have a pension out of which cannot even buy medicines (although they are supposed to be free, as they payed in an universal health care system)...Yeah, we should kill them all, they fulfilled their role... Out with them!

Btw. How things are in ex-Yugoslavia now? Never hear any news from there.
Of course some people will glorify the Communist times. Little to no work 6 hours per day, guaranteed salary, cheap credits etc you can't get fired and all of that! Problem is 30 years down the line you find yourself with peanuts pension. Well guess, what, that was your contribution in the system. Factories, companies were working and hiring people after being in the red year after year. It was called "buying social peace" Eventually money will dry, countries will fail. It's what happened in the whole Eastern Bloc and it will happen in Greece

Ex-YU is the same just like all the rest of the former bloc, albeit not as "bad". People need to have their mindset changed to understand that there is no free lunch and that you are getting paid for what you've worked, not just showing up at work. Greece has the exact same problem.
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  #128  
Old 30.01.2015, 14:39
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Re: Greek elections

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Ex-YU is the same just like all the rest of the former bloc, albeit not as "bad". .
I suppose you're referring to Slovenia and probably Croatia here.
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  #129  
Old 30.01.2015, 14:52
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Re: Greek elections

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I suppose you're referring to Slovenia and probably Croatia here.
Actually the whole YU had much better economic and living conditions compared to every other country in the Eastern Bloc, and even better compared to Greece in the 1980s. But still, planned economy killed everything in the end
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  #130  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:02
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Re: Greek elections

Why is Greece bullied into Ireland way instead of going the Iceland way? Irresponsible banks were supplying corrupt politicians with cheap money. Too bad. The bulk of the nation is not responsible for this.

NY Times: Krugman: Europe’s Greek Test

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The truth, however, is that the great bulk of the money lent to Greece has been used simply to pay interest and principal on debt. In fact, for the past two years, more than all of the money going to Greece has been recycled in this way: the Greek government is taking in more revenue than it spends on things other than interest, and handing the extra funds over to its creditors.

Or to oversimplify things a bit, you can think of European policy as involving a bailout, not of Greece, but of creditor-country banks, with the Greek government simply acting as the middleman — and with the Greek public, which has seen a catastrophic fall in living standards, required to make further sacrifices so that it, too, can contribute funds to that bailout.
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  #131  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:06
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Re: Greek elections

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Why is Greece bullied into Ireland way instead of going the Iceland way? Irresponsible banks were supplying corrupt politicians with cheap money. Too bad. The bulk of the nation is not responsible for this.

NY Times: Krugman: Europe’s Greek Test
While some money go into servicing the huge debt the very same people made, a lot of the money is used to keep the country running, how do you think those pensions and salaries are getting paid?
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  #132  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:10
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Greek elections

Tell me the numbers. What amount of the bailout money goes into a current budget deficit?
Greece has no money and will never have to pay this debt. Get over it. Prosecute these irresponsible banksters from creditor countries instead.
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  #133  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:34
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Re: Greek elections

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Tell me the numbers. What amount of the bailout money goes into a current budget deficit?
Greece has no money and will never have to pay this debt. Get over it. Prosecute these irresponsible banksters from creditor countries instead.
You make me laugh yacek. "Prosecute the banksters"

LMAO

As if the creditors are at fault for Greece spending money like its the end of the world
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  #134  
Old 30.01.2015, 16:02
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Re: Greek elections

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Why is Greece bullied into Ireland way instead of going the Iceland way? Irresponsible banks were supplying corrupt politicians with cheap money. Too bad. The bulk of the nation is not responsible for this.

NY Times: Krugman: Europe’s Greek Test
1) Because Greece is the ONLY country that committed fraud to get into the Euro to access those cheap funds.
2) Because if you borrow money you should pay it back. That's why it's called borrowing and not stealing.
3) The Greeks voted time and again for irresponsible governments. A population gets the government they deserve.
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  #135  
Old 30.01.2015, 16:12
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Re: Greek elections

Unless you're Germany and all your debts are forgiven. Or Italy, or France.

Any other countries you don't like to add to the list parnell?
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  #136  
Old 30.01.2015, 16:21
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Re: Greek elections

Greece already had 110bn euro written off.

Why should a country and its populace who have repeatedly lied , cheated and failed to meet their obligations be given yet another chance ? No other country has been given the leeway they have had up to now.

Discipline in Greece will lead to knock on benefits in all EU countries.
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  #137  
Old 30.01.2015, 16:34
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Re: Greek elections

Let's do what Germany did in the 40s, round them up and slaughter them all again. No deficit, no problem.

We'll leave the young and healthy ones standing only and they can work for free for a few decades to pay off the debt.


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Greece already had 110bn euro written off.
The majority of the 110bn was wiped off from Greek banks and private holders. The population took the hit as much as any hedge fund that speculated. So don't present this as a gift as we took the largest part of the hit. Then we were forced an even bigger loan with a worse rate!!!

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Why should a country and its populace who have repeatedly lied , cheated and failed to meet their obligations be given yet another chance ? No other country has been given the leeway they have had up to now.
So the population was the one who lied huh. Our mothers, fathers and friends with their infinite economic wisdom decided to cheat you out of your hard earned money? You surely understand how idiotic that sounds. There should be trials for treason against previous governments who fudged the stats of course! People already pay for what they voted for, quite dearly.

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No other country has been given the leeway they have had up to now.
Yes it has, primarily Germany but also Italy and other big european countries too. And in a much and more meaningful debt/gbp ratio too.


Not only that but Germany, Austria, France etc have made HUGE money from Greece, Italy and Spain in the last years. You have not only lost anything so far but instead made a big profit out of the crisis.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9410CG20130502

Have a go and come back to discuss how exactly Greece whose GDP has been devastated and millions of people are out of work to repay those excruciating debts are threatening anyone?

So far the big winners are the ones who present themselves are victims.
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  #138  
Old 30.01.2015, 16:59
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Greek elections

Whatever is right is right, but Greece's gov't doesn't have this money and won't have. Anybody believing EU that they can squeeze this money out of Greece as they were able in Ireland lives in delusion. Cyprus? How long EU officials and politicians were lying through their teethes? With ECB help Italy's, France's and whoever else debt will be wiped put with inflation eventually - they'll buy with "quantitive easing" thus keeping the refinancing cost artificially low, probably after a promise that it will be only rolled and not increased, and inflation will reduce it - like UK and US did so many times, and like Italy or France did before introduction of euro.
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  #139  
Old 30.01.2015, 23:48
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Re: Greek elections

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Let's do what Germany did in the 40s, round them up and slaughter them all again. No deficit, no problem.
Incredibly distasteful and inaccurate thing to write especially in view of the Auschwitz liberation anniversary. Shame on you.

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Have a go and come back to discuss how exactly Greece whose GDP has been devastated and millions of people are out of work to repay those excruciating debts are threatening anyone?

So far the big winners are the ones who present themselves are victims.
No... it's Ireland - look at the GDP growth. Latvia pulled off an even better trick and yet it's people went to work rather than whine and riot. Quit bitching.
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  #140  
Old 31.01.2015, 02:13
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Re: Greek elections

So sad to see people losing an argument and reacting so badly to facts, almost laughable if it wasn't pathetic. Back to your hole now and leave discussions for grown ups.
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