Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25.01.2015, 18:07
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 721
Groaned at 124 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 583 Times in 271 Posts
Troublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthy
Greek elections

With voting still having 55 minutes to go and betting companies having predicted the outcome already, I dare call the result:

Syriza first with 8-10% ahead of the second party and at least 7 parties making it in the parliament.


Tough times ahead for Greece and/or Europe? I'd like to see where the CHF/EUR stands tomorrow morning when results are announced.


/discuss
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Troublawesome for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 25.01.2015, 18:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 70
Groaned at 42 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 82 Posts
farmadoc has earned some respectfarmadoc has earned some respect
Re: Greek elections

Don't think Greece will have a major impact on the rest of Europe. Wether there'll be a Grexit or not I don't know, but there should be. This tiny, ridiculous country exists in Europe as an accident and should leave. They want to earn nothing, pay no tax, and retire at 45 and frankly, the rest of Europe neither wants nor needs them. Let's bring Turkey into the fold instead (with a human rights boost). Leave the Greeks to their Golden Dawn.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank farmadoc for this useful post:
The following 10 users groan at farmadoc for this post:
  #3  
Old 25.01.2015, 18:29
moggy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Thurgau (& London, UK)
Posts: 1,488
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 768 Times in 511 Posts
moggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
Don't think Greece will have a major impact on the rest of Europe. Wether there'll be a Grexit or not I don't know, but there should be. This tiny, ridiculous country exists in Europe as an accident and should leave. They want to earn nothing, pay no tax, and retire at 45 and frankly, the rest of Europe neither wants nor needs them. Let's bring Turkey into the fold instead (with a human rights boost). Leave the Greeks to their Golden Dawn.
It was the women who had 3 children of varying ages and had worked for 25 years who could retire after 45. That is no longer the case for new claims. Though I felt a slight twinge of jealousy when I learnt of this too late. I do think better of them than many people in the UK who spend more years totally on benefits, having their rent, council tax, heathcare, child allowance and Job Seeker Allowances all paid.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank moggy for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 25.01.2015, 18:39
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 721
Groaned at 124 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 583 Times in 271 Posts
Troublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthy
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
Don't think Greece will have a major impact on the rest of Europe. Wether there'll be a Grexit or not I don't know, but there should be. This tiny, ridiculous country exists in Europe as an accident and should leave. They want to earn nothing, pay no tax, and retire at 45 and frankly, the rest of Europe neither wants nor needs them. Let's bring Turkey into the fold instead (with a human rights boost). Leave the Greeks to their Golden Dawn.
Wow, Fox News would be proud of you. Way to go

For a minute I thought you were talking about France there
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Troublawesome for this useful post:
This user groans at Troublawesome for this post:
  #5  
Old 26.01.2015, 10:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,109
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,068 Times in 3,281 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
Don't think Greece will have a major impact on the rest of Europe. Wether there'll be a Grexit or not I don't know, but there should be.
I truly hope there won't be a Grexit, even though I have little confidence given the results of recent elections.

Edit: why did you groan at Dimitrios, st2lemans? I know you don't like EU, neither do I, but it's too late now for this kind of feelings.

Last edited by greenmount; 26.01.2015 at 10:49.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26.01.2015, 10:48
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
Tough times ahead for Greece and/or Europe? I'd like to see where the CHF/EUR stands tomorrow morning when results are announced.

/discuss

I'd like to see the EU take a difference stance in the way they approach their member states. This is one of many issues that are heading in their direction. If the EU continues to harden and assert power against their member states, it will break. The EU really needs to learn and practice the art of compromise.

I wonder what opportunities Switzerland has in this development.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 26.01.2015, 10:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,109
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,068 Times in 3,281 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
I'd like to see the EU take a difference stance in the way they approach their member states. This is one of many issues that are heading in their direction. If the EU continues to harden and assert power against their member states, it will break. The EU really needs to learn and practice the art of compromise.

I wonder what opportunities Switzerland has in this development.
Have the feeling that the art of compromise means when the big men talk the little dogs have to listen....The Eu is already versed in this ahem, Art.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26.01.2015, 10:57
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
I wonder what opportunities Switzerland has in this development.
By getting ready to stash Greek money ...

If Greece defaults and looks to be on its way out of the euro, expect a massive bank run in Greece before everything gets watered down in drachmas.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26.01.2015, 10:57
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
Have the feeling that the art of compromise means when the big men talk the little dogs have to listen....The Eu is already versed in this ahem, Art.
Isn't that the opposite of compromise? Sometimes, the little dog may be trying to say, "Look, I really need to poop." And if the big men are too arrogant to listen, the little dog will poop in the house.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 26.01.2015, 11:11
Don Molina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 608
Groaned at 17 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 877 Times in 370 Posts
Don Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

It's official: SYRIZA is not getting absolute majority so they will have to take another party on board. Not that much will change in what is going to happen:



1) Europe as a whole is tired of austerity, especially since it's clearly not working. The building sentiment would mature sometime this year anyway, the election result may be a good trigger.

2) There is a good chance of a haircut, again not because SYRIZA is a master of negotiations (spoiler alert: they're not), but because it's basically unsustainable. The debt level is not going down, because the GDP is shrinking faster. The economy is strangled because the banks won't lend money, so there is no capital for investment.

3) Even if there is some capital for investment, the legal and tax structure in Greece, as well as its freaking volatility, doesn't inspire anyone to do business there. And the "business" most people have in mind is a fast-food shop, a cafeteria, or an after-school education center that basically substitutes school because teachers prefer to re-visit the students at home and charge them than actually do their freaking job in the morning.

No businesses = no employment. That will not change

SYRIZA's idea and main pre-election promise is that we're going to fix that by just hiring everyone in the public sector. I'd like to see them try.
They will probably do absolutely nothing to introduce changes that are going to foster development. They talk about "taxing the rich" without realising that the rich actually have structured their holdings in the most tax-efficient way. When they realise this they will just tax again the middle class and everyone will get shafted. Again.

4) Tsipras last night talked exactly like Andreas Panandreou did about 35 years ago. He's promising the same things, and he's definitely going to try to deliver or do the biggest "KOLOTOUMPA" of all time and bend over backwards. In any case this whole thing is sad.



Greeks listened to promises that definitely seem to good to be true, didn't stop to do a sanity check on them, and when they will not be delivered (probably) they will just yell "they lied to us".

That's been the excuse of the Greek voting body for the last 10 years and that is going to be their excuse for the next 10 years. It's just sad.


I hope I'm wrong, it is my country and my family and very good friends do live there. But I can't see any light in the tunnel.




PS. farmadoc I don't know where you're from, but calling another country "tiny" and "ridiculous" is not polite (to say the least). There are ridiculous elements is all countries and deep problems in most. If you fail to understand or acknowledge that, just be nice please. Thanks.
__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Don Molina for this useful post:
This user groans at Don Molina for this post:
  #11  
Old 26.01.2015, 11:37
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,064
Groaned at 295 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,847 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

I just don't get all the excitement over Syriza. What bargaining power does it have over the EU? And if they choose to default on their debt, who is going to lend them money in future? I can't see how they're going to deliver on their promises and I expect another round of elections in 6 months time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 26.01.2015, 11:42
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
I just don't get all the excitement over Syriza. What bargaining power does it have over the EU? And if they choose to default on their debt, who is going to lend them money in future? I can't see how they're going to deliver on their promises and I expect another round of elections in 6 months time.
I imagine they would be compelled to sequester private assets, and this probably triggered a flight of capital out of the country.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26.01.2015, 12:06
Slaphead's Avatar
Moderato espressivo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,145
Groaned at 40 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 8,993 Times in 2,760 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Reports are on the BBC that the Independent Greeks party have now formed and "Anti-Austerity" coalition with the Syriza party, effectively giving the anti-austerity group a controlling majority in the Greek government.

Link to article - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30981950

Time will tell how things work out.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26.01.2015, 12:31
Dack Rambo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,439
Groaned at 178 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 1,551 Times in 765 Posts
Dack Rambo has earned the respect of manyDack Rambo has earned the respect of manyDack Rambo has earned the respect of many
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
What bargaining power does it have over the EU? And if they choose to default on their debt, who is going to lend them money in future?
This could be called the Samson option. They threaten to default and risk chaos spreading to all euro countries.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26.01.2015, 12:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 936
Groaned at 74 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 916 Times in 553 Posts
yacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputationyacek has an excellent reputation
Re: Greek elections

Das Leiden der Griechen – vergeblich?

According to the above, see chart "Kaum Fortschritte bei den Exporten" - the imports have decreased, but the exports haven't increased, and Greece has still a trade deficit.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26.01.2015, 12:53
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,064
Groaned at 295 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,847 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
This could be called the Samson option. They threaten to default and risk chaos spreading to all euro countries.
But that's all they can do. And what if they do this and the EU shrugs and says "OK", who's going to be more screwed?

They're promising to increase pensions, public spending and the public sector. Who's going to pay for it? And why on earth would you return to the ways that bankrupted the country in the first place?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 26.01.2015, 12:57
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 760
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,686 Times in 505 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greek elections

Quote:
View Post
I just don't get all the excitement over Syriza. What bargaining power does it have over the EU? And if they choose to default on their debt, who is going to lend them money in future? I can't see how they're going to deliver on their promises and I expect another round of elections in 6 months time.
I think there are two things here:

1. They know they have little power, but now they have 4 years to cross that bridge. They'll negotiate a bit, maybe relieve some of the debt burden and still claim that they fulfilled their promise.
2. There are natural gas deposits around Greece and while they are too expensive at the current market prices, I think the EU wants to retain control over them in case things turn worse with the Russian supply. So they are not particularly keen on just expelling Greece.

This is all compounded by the unfortunate blockheadedness of the average voter. I presume they do not think as far as: "who will give us money if we default?" or "how will we pay for essential government funding?". They have no prospects and opportunities. At this point, they think defaulting can not make things much worse than they already are.

You know, all this austerity imposed by the Germans is a bit funny in the end. Just 60 years ago, it was them who were stifled by overly aggressive punishments and they quite happily listened to a crazed man with a funny little mustache. Back then the French wanted to teach them a lesson, now the Germans are doing it to others. A lesson is all and well, but when you have nothing to lose, no prospects and you are cornered, even the extreme actions will start looking attractive.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 26.01.2015, 12:59
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Greek elections

A communist and a fascist will govern the new Greek politics while the neo-fascists are third in the polls

Can't see a better chance for a classic Greek tragedy
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank idefix for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 26.01.2015, 13:17
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 70
Groaned at 42 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 82 Posts
farmadoc has earned some respectfarmadoc has earned some respect
Re: Greek elections

Don Molina: I apologise for being insensitive, its just that Greeks have always thought themselves better than their neighbours without much cause
Democracy may have been a Greek word but modern Greece was born of fascism and does not now, nor has ever belonged in the EU. I say boot them now while its easier.

Go visit Pireus and then Bruges and tell me what these places have in common and why they should share a political -economic structure.

Last edited by farmadoc; 26.01.2015 at 13:46.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank farmadoc for this useful post:
The following 6 users groan at farmadoc for this post:
  #20  
Old 26.01.2015, 13:21
zerogre's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: London
Posts: 365
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 230 Times in 119 Posts
zerogre is considered knowledgeablezerogre is considered knowledgeablezerogre is considered knowledgeable
Re: Greek elections

How can this work? As I understand it, they will need more money and the Germans have insisted on austerity measures as a tradeoff, which Syriza clearly does not want. What other options are there other than leaving the EU? Am I missing something?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank zerogre for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
English-Greek speaking Nanny-teach greek available from October zurich evangelia Jobs wanted 2 21.05.2015 19:14
Sink Floyd - Another Greek in the wall (Greek debt song) idefix Jokes/funnies 1 25.10.2012 23:53
US elections 2012 CHexo International affairs/politics 29 15.12.2009 23:28
Malaysian elections 2008 jrspet International affairs/politics 2 30.03.2008 17:39


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0