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  #181  
Old 08.02.2015, 04:46
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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In South Africa the Black people refer to themselves as Black, the Coloureds call themselves Coloured, Indians are Indians. And White people are called White people.


Collectively they refer to themselves as the Rainbow Nation.


And when griping about each other in the news they use the separate descriptions as above.

Alright, if you are a White but not really, and in a way a Coloured but not really a coloured, you in German then are än Rägebogener
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  #182  
Old 08.02.2015, 09:15
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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NEGER is NOT "Nigger" but clearly NEGRO
Well, then it is of course ok to use... (are you as a native Swiss German speaker seriously debating weather or not Neger is a negative term?)

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Alright, if you are a White but not really, and in a way a Coloured but not really a coloured, you in German then are än Rägebogener
No, it isn't.
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  #183  
Old 09.02.2015, 07:09
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Well, then it is of course ok to use... (are you as a native Swiss German speaker seriously debating weather or not Neger is a negative term?)



No, it isn't.

NEGER is clearly NOT a negative term. MOORECHOPF is nice even have too much sugar in it. No I regard myself as àn Südländer but accept to be regarded in the USA as a Coloured and whomever has a problem with such things should consult a soul-plumber
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  #184  
Old 09.02.2015, 11:20
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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NEGER is clearly NOT a negative term. MOORECHOPF is nice even have too much sugar in it. No I regard myself as àn Südländer but accept to be regarded in the USA as a Coloured and whomever has a problem with such things should consult a soul-plumber
"Dä Schwiizer isch immer dä Neger"
(roughly: swiss always get the short straw)

No negative connotations? Get real.
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  #185  
Old 09.02.2015, 12:47
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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"Dä Schwiizer isch immer dä Neger"
(roughly: swiss always get the short straw)

No negative connotations? Get real.
I think negative connotations are context-dependent.

When I was a student I rented a room off an elderly landlady.

She sometimes ask me questions like

"Wie geht es ihr netter kollägg, de Neger" without implying anything negative.

(the friend in question wasn't even "African" but actually of Sri Lankan parents)
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  #186  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:31
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

Lead of an article by 20min.ch that reports about some racist rant:
"10 Neger sind mir lieber als ein Kosovo-Albaner"
Kosovo-Albaner are among the least-liked around here, probably even more disliked than italians 40 years ago.

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I think negative connotations are context-dependent.
When I was a student I rented a room off an elderly landlady.
She sometimes ask me questions like
"Wie geht es ihr netter kollägg, de Neger" without implying anything negative.
(the friend in question wasn't even "African" but actually of Sri Lankan parents)
May I assume what you describe happened multiple decennials ago? Meanings change. What's more, the then-elderly probably acquired vocabulary and usage around/before WW2, a time where discrimination avoidance was definitely not top priority.

Google Rassentheorie:
"Neger" was introduced in the 18th century as part of the developing race theories and, of course, race hierarchies, that saw their top in the early 19th century. The white west-european "Arier" were considered top, negroid races were placed near the bottom, just a tad above the lowest-ranking american indigenous people. Core characteristics that were claimed to go along with higher rank were higher intelligence and ability learn.
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  #187  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:42
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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May I assume what you describe happened multiple decennials ago? Meanings change. What's more, the then-elderly probably acquired vocabulary and usage around/before WW2, a time where discrimination avoidance was definitely not top priority.

Google Rassentheorie:
"Neger" was introduced in the 18th century as part of the developing race theories and, of course, race hierarchies, that saw their top in the early 19th century. The white west-european "Arier" were considered top, negroid races were placed near the bottom, just a tad above the lowest-ranking american indigenous people. Core characteristics that were claimed to go along with higher rank were higher intelligence and ability learn.
If you ever read Pippi Langstrumpf, you would know that her father was
a "Negerkönig". You can hardly call that a 19th Century use of the word.

You are projecting the negative meaning of the word into a dsitant past
although in reality this is a recent thing, caused by mistranslation of
the English word.
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  #188  
Old 09.02.2015, 16:16
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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If you ever read Pippi Langstrumpf, you would know that her father was
a "Negerkönig". You can hardly call that a 19th Century use of the word.
The book was published in 1945... parents who read this to their kids were of the generation that went to "Kolonialschauen" and watched Africans presented in cages or zoo-like stages... not the part of European history to be most proud of I guess.

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  #189  
Old 09.02.2015, 17:21
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Lead of an article by 20min.ch that reports about some racist rant:
"10 Neger sind mir lieber als ein Kosovo-Albaner"
Kosovo-Albaner are among the least-liked around here, probably even more disliked than italians 40 years ago.

.
I have a feeling that many (EFers included) would think that's NOT racist and look, this man has nothing against black people or other race people, so he's not racist.

But ahem, let's carry on our pledge against racism....

PS. Dr. Urs, I remember exactly a post of yours when you said a poor Croatian chap shouldn't get a job in CH because well, we know why.
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  #190  
Old 22.05.2015, 20:41
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

Oh noes. The word we are allowed to use in the UK has changed again. Probably because we all just about learned it.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ial-minorities
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  #191  
Old 22.05.2015, 21:12
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Oh noes. The word we are allowed to use in the UK has changed again. Probably because we all just about learned it.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ial-minorities
Why doesn't the bloody Guardian just shut the hell up and ask people what they want to be called instead of always trying to stick labels on people?
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  #192  
Old 22.05.2015, 21:16
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Why doesn't the bloody Guardian just shut the hell up and ask people what they want to be called instead of always trying to stick labels on people?
But that's what they did in this article.
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  #193  
Old 22.05.2015, 21:28
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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But that's what they did in this article.

Two of the four people they asked were writers for the Guardian.

How about asking non-Guardian orientated people what they think? Do you think they will be offended?
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  #194  
Old 22.05.2015, 22:23
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Two of the four people they asked were writers for the Guardian.

How about asking non-Guardian orientated people what they think? Do you think they will be offended?
Actually one of those two is a video producer and funnily enough, she doesn't agree with casting aside a term which is no longer "good enough" and which in real life is meaningless.
Sure, they could ask more non-Guardian persons, only non-Guardian persons even, but that doesn't mean that those two couldn't have their say. In fact, obviously much more legitimate than mine or yours.
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  #195  
Old 20.06.2015, 15:02
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

Sorry I'm late to the most recent replies from May but I was reminded of this recently; while listening to BBC Radio 1 a few weeks ago when Rachel Dolezal was in the news, I was SURE I heard one of the Newsbeat presenters refer to the situation as whether or not she is "coloured". I'd meant to check the next day if it had been picked up on but I forgot does anyone know? Did anyone else hear it?
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  #196  
Old 20.06.2015, 15:09
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

Might have been in the context of her job in the NAACP?
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  #197  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:33
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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I have a feeling that many (EFers included) would think that's NOT racist and look, this man has nothing against black people or other race people, so he's not racist.

But ahem, let's carry on our pledge against racism....

PS. Dr. Urs, I remember exactly a post of yours when you said a poor Croatian chap shouldn't get a job in CH because well, we know why.
You may remember me saying but that doesn't make it true. Where did I say that?
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