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  #61  
Old 28.01.2015, 15:42
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

I think its brilliant that the Muricans get offended by someone who made a minor ethical faux pas.

This would be the same nation that almost wiped out its entire native population through greed and domestic expansion. The same nation that had segregated areas into the 1960s and only now are they allowing Hollywood to try and catch up with what actually happened, making it acceptable (Selma for example). The same nation that produces more rap music where use of racist terms is a given, but pretends to be "shocked" when a non-African American uses inappropriate terminology. Where a famous sportsman is cleared of a double homicide because one of the investigating detectives used a derogatory name.

Gets off high horse and chuckles ...

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  #62  
Old 28.01.2015, 15:48
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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I think its brilliant that the Muricans get offended by someone who made a minor ethical faux pas.

This would be the same nation that almost wiped out its entire native population through greed and domestic expansion. The same nation that had segregated areas into the 1960s and only now are they allowing Hollywood to try and catch up with what actually happened, making it acceptable (Selma for example). The same nation that produces more rap music where use of racist terms is a given, but pretends to be "shocked" when a non-African American uses inappropriate terminology. Where a famous sportsman is cleared of a double homicide because one of the investigating detectives used a derogatory name.

Gets off high horse and chuckles ...

Yeah, we pretty much got all the problems of the rest of the world smooshed up in a half-millennium and one contintent. ;-)
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Old 28.01.2015, 15:57
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Yeah, we pretty much got all the problems of the rest of the world smooshed up in a half-millennium and one contintent. ;-)
One day Americans will be Americans and not Afro-irish-italian-puertorican-american.

You what?

"Well you see my fathers grandfather was Irish - his parents came over here and he was born here - but he was Irish. He married my grandmother who was African-american - she never went to Africa, but her grandmother came over on the slave ships. On my months side my grandfather is proper Italian. His name was Dino and it was his mothers uncle that came over from Italy. Dino married a woman from Puerto Rico"

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  #64  
Old 28.01.2015, 16:03
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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One day Americans will be Americans and not Afro-irish-italian-puertorican-american.

You what?

"Well you see my fathers grandfather was Irish - his parents came over here and he was born here - but he was Irish. He married my grandmother who was African-american - she never went to Africa, but her grandmother came over on the slave ships. On my months side my grandfather is proper Italian. His name was Dino and it was his mothers uncle that came over from Italy. Dino married a woman from Puerto Rico"


For some reason, as proud as Americans are to be American---they are also very proud of their international heritage...twice removed. :P

Canadians are the same-- each one is german/irish/polish/filipino but all yuppy white-bread who have never left the Golden Horseshoe (except for that summer after Junior year where they backpacked through hostels in Europe to reconnect to their roots).

I've once met a Swiss guy who even called me out on it when I said I was Swiss.
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Old 28.01.2015, 16:04
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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One day Americans will be Americans and not Afro-irish-italian-puertorican-american.
And one day Brits will be Brits! I despair at the number of times I get asked "oh, but where are you really from?"
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Old 28.01.2015, 16:30
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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And one day Brits will be Brits! I despair at the number of times I get asked "oh, but where are you really from?"
Well, I don't stand out in terms of pantone skin colour, but I have a name that's not typically British. Many people ask me where I'm from or where my name is from. But I don't think its because they classify me as "foreign" but just because that's a good way to start some small talk. Even people whose pantone colour is obviously darker than mine or whose accent is more exotic than mine and who thus probably have a recent migration history will ask me where I'm from. And I don't mind telling them. But neither do I see why I shouldn't return the question. I think the problem is that some people are too easily offended and interpret the most innocent of questions or remarks as racial jibes.

This is one difference between the UK and the USA. In the USA everybody is always telling me unasked for where their grandparents came from and are proud of it (you only need to scroll upthread to see some examples). This trait seems to be fairly persistent across all racial groups, classes and occupations. In the UK you ask the same thing and you're deemed a racist.
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  #67  
Old 28.01.2015, 16:59
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

Yah, it's weird that so many Americans classify themselves by their granparent, great-grandparents nationality, sometimes without the suffix, many a time I hear Americans say they are Irish.... Well I'm sorry, if you do not have that nations passport you are not that nationality.
I also find it strange that hardly anyone says they are English-American... Except those descended from the puritans that set off from the Netherlands.
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:07
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Yah, it's weird that so many Americans classify themselves by their granparent, great-grandparents nationality, sometimes without the suffix, many a time I hear Americans say they are Irish.... Well I'm sorry, if you do not have that nations passport you are not that nationality.
I also find it strange that hardly anyone says they are English-American... Except those descended from the puritans that set off from the Netherlands.
Why should anyone be bothered if they identify themselves with a certain ethnic group or culture? I understand this is a sensitive topic in UK but people in other countries have different views re. nationality and ethnicity, and make a clear distinction between the two. Back home we have people that are proud of their Hungarian, German, Greek, Armenian, descent and never hesitate to talk about it. And frankly, it's totally cool in my opinion.
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  #69  
Old 28.01.2015, 17:09
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Why should anyone be bothered if they identify themselves with a certain ethnic group or culture? I understand this is a sensitive topic in UK but people in other countries have different views re. nationality and ethnicity, and make a clear distinction between the two.
I think you're intermingling the term ethnicity with nationality. I am ethnically Irish (among other things, but mostly Irish. There, amogles, I did it too.), but my nationality is very much American (as I'm often reminded here. ;-) )
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:11
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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I think you're intermingling the term ethnicity with nationality. I am ethnically Irish (among other things, but mostly Irish. There, amogles, I did it too.), but my nationality is very much American (as I'm often reminded here. ;-) )
No, I don't, as I use it in the same way as you do, sorry. But if someone says he's Irish and I know he comes from 'merica I tend to understand that he means the ethnicity and don't have a prob with that.
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:12
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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[the anti-racism charity] said: "The term 'coloured' is now outdated and has the potential to cause offence due to the connotations associated with the term and its historical usage."
WTF? I guess "black" can't be said either?
So what if someone describes a person with black skin colour as "black"?
Why would "coloured" be more or less offensive?

And I guess describing "coloured" actors as "actors and actresses with a different ethnological origin than mine" would also have been offending (I see these anti-racism crazed groups saying that you can't differentiate ethnical roots, etc.

I think this is ridiculous. If someone was to describe me physically, I hope they wouldn't say the "non-tall coloured [after all, skin, even when "white" is always coloured, isn't it?] face-haired masculine person" but rather "the short white bearded guy".

What Cumberbatch actually wanted to highlight, is that unfortunately the colour of the skin still influences the way a person is percieved. I don't see which words would have been more accurate in this case.

These people who get offended for everything drive me nuts.
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  #72  
Old 28.01.2015, 17:14
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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In the UK you ask the same thing and you're deemed a racist.
Don't get me wrong - I don't think for one that if people ask me about my cultural heritage, that they do so because they are racist. I understand there is something called curiosity. I do it too, sometimes.

What I find interesting is that Brits called Hansen, van Regensburg or Meyer do not get asked about their cultural heritage, as often as those with surnames like Khan, Rodrigues, or Koothrappali.
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:15
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

i find it weird that people spend so much time caring about what americans call themselves. to be fair, i grew up in a neighborhood where everyone spoke languages other than english and traveled back to their country of origin regularly, even if they were second or third generation. the u.s not only accepts the history of their immigrant populations, but often celebrates it- and if you go to ny and see the storefronts, restos and whatnot with different languages on the signs or see the way the education system works when dealing with language learners you will understand the difference.

brits especially, but others too don't get it. it's a very different country and culture and assimilation isn't the goal of much of the population, instead it's more like recreation which is one reason why it's a constantly evolving and fast moving place.

why is it so important to 'get' the american way of doing this or calling that or not? it's just different for many reasons and if different is weird, then it's weird...

p.s it's often others who ask me, but really where are you from when i say i am an american...if you get that enough, sometimes it's just easier to cut to the chase...
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:18
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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I think you're intermingling the term ethnicity with nationality. I am ethnically Northern European (among other things, but mostly Irish. There, amogles, I did it too.), but my nationality is very much American (as I'm often reminded here. ;-) )
FTFY - because it really doesn't make much difference. Irish/English/French/German - ethnically pretty much all the same.

You are not ethnically Southern European (insert stereotypically features/behaviours), or Scandinavian, or Slavic, or Middle Eastern.

Dress you up in the same clothes as anyone from Northern Europe and you'd be hard pushed to tell you all apart. (And I don't mean "They all look the same to me")
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:37
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

you know, oddly enough, for as many "Irish-Americans", "Dutch-Americans", "German-Americans", "Italian-Americans" and "Chinese-Americans" as you might meet, it is damn near impossible to find an American who will describe themself as "British-American".

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Old 28.01.2015, 17:40
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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you know, oddly enough, for as many "Irish-Americans", "Dutch-Americans", "German-Americans", "Italian-Americans" and "Chinese-Americans" as you might meet, it is damn near impossible to find an American who will describe themself as "British-American".

Considering you're more likely to meet a German-American that Irish or Dutch.

British-Americans tend to fall under "American"
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:44
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Considering you're more likely to meet a German-American that Irish or Dutch.

British-Americans tend to fall under "American"
that link references "African-Americans". I am suing Wikipedia for racism.

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Yah, it's weird that so many Americans classify themselves by their granparent, great-grandparents nationality, sometimes without the suffix, many a time I hear Americans say they are Irish.... Well I'm sorry, if you do not have that nations passport you are not that nationality.
it's not "weird" at all, being an "American", with the exception of Native Americans, has nothing to do with ethnicity at all, which is why many Americans feel strong ethnic ties to the countries their ancestors came from. this is completely different from pretty much every place in Europe, for example, where, despite several decades of social engineering and "education", ethnicity still plays a very strong role in sense of nationhood.
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:46
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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that link references "African-Americans". I am suing Wikipedia for racism.
They are also black-americans!
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Old 28.01.2015, 17:58
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

I find roots quite fascinating, and have done ever since a primary school project where I had to interview my grandparents and found out that I might be less than 50% English! Neither a bad thing or a good thing, just an interesting thing!

My friend had one of these done http://www.23andme.com/en-gb/ and the info he got was so detailed and also gives genetic health information. I considered ordering one to feed my egotistic curiosity
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:02
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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i find it weird that people spend so much time caring about what americans call themselves. to be fair, i grew up in a neighborhood where everyone spoke languages other than english and traveled back to their country of origin regularly, even if they were second or third generation. the u.s not only accepts the history of their immigrant populations, but often celebrates it- and if you go to ny and see the storefronts, restos and whatnot with different languages on the signs or see the way the education system works when dealing with language learners you will understand the difference.

brits especially, but others too don't get it. it's a very different country and culture and assimilation isn't the goal of much of the population, instead it's more like recreation which is one reason why it's a constantly evolving and fast moving place.

why is it so important to 'get' the american way of doing this or calling that or not? it's just different for many reasons and if different is weird, then it's weird...

p.s it's often others who ask me, but really where are you from when i say i am an american...if you get that enough, sometimes it's just easier to cut to the chase...
What she said.

America is a land of immigrants. Except for the indigenous people, every other single person is a relative newbie when compared to other countries. Maybe in a thousand years when Americans have been "American" for as long as Europeans have been European, we will stop acknowledging our ancestral heritage. Until then, it's one of the things that makes us unique.

It would also help if everybody stopped wanting to live there. It's difficult to build a homogenous identity when the rest of the planet just keeps coming to try and "live the American dream". (Ok, except for those of you who live in Switzerland and are already living the dream!)
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