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  #81  
Old 28.01.2015, 18:11
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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No, I don't, as I use it in the same way as you do, sorry. But if someone says he's Irish and I know he comes from 'merica I tend to understand that he means the ethnicity and don't have a prob with that.
Oops, I quoted the wrong person... My bad (because 'Murica).
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:14
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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British-Americans tend to fall under "American"
That's right ..
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  #83  
Old 28.01.2015, 18:31
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Why should anyone be bothered if they identify themselves with a certain ethnic group or culture? I understand this is a sensitive topic in UK but people in other countries have different views re. nationality and ethnicity, and make a clear distinction between the two. Back home we have people that are proud of their Hungarian, German, Greek, Armenian, descent and never hesitate to talk about it. And frankly, it's totally cool in my opinion.
So.... Different countries have different faux pas and we shouldn't judge everyone by just one countries standards. I.e. If. British person uses a word that is offensive in one country but not in others then we should just let it go and concentrate on the issue he was talking about not just one word?
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:35
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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you know, oddly enough, for as many "Irish-Americans", "Dutch-Americans", "German-Americans", "Italian-Americans" and "Chinese-Americans" as you might meet, it is damn near impossible to find an American who will describe themself as "British-American".

I'm not sure.

Maybe they don't say "British American", but I've often been asked if I've been to some obscure village in Cumbria or Northumberland and had to disappoint them saying, "sorry I've never been there and don't think I've even heard of it", and then be told, what a pity, because their great-great-grandfather came from there.
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:36
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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What she said.

America is a land of immigrants. Except for the indigenous people, every other single person is a relative newbie when compared to other countries. Maybe in a thousand years when Americans have been "American" for as long as Europeans have been European, we will stop acknowledging our ancestral heritage. Until then, it's one of the things that makes us unique.

It would also help if everybody stopped wanting to live there. It's difficult to build a homogenous identity when the rest of the planet just keeps coming to try and "live the American dream". (Ok, except for those of you who live in Switzerland and are already living the dream!)
Don't really see it in Australia, which is an even younger country.
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:41
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Who is 485????
That would be me, after a day at the beach without sunscreen.

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...Yet another problem area. We can't call Native Americans (not to be confused with American natives!!!) Indians any more, but the Native Americans in our area keep calling themselves Indians.
Depends on where you are and context of the conversation. A term that went out of fashion but is coming back is "American Indian."

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In Canada "Native Americans" cannot be used to refer to Indigenous peoples, 'Aboriginal People in Canada' is the term that is properly used.
First Nations is also used sometimes.

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...I descend from Native Americans and we don't use that term, nor do we use Indian. We use the specific name of our tribe...
Thanks for sharing the photo. It's easy to understand what you mean if you're from one of the more well-known tribes, such as Cherokee. But if you're from a smaller tribe that's not as well-known, people will just give you a blank look.
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:45
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Thanks for sharing the photo. It's easy to understand what you mean if you're from one of the more well-known tribes, such as Cherokee. But if you're from a smaller tribe that's not as well-known, people will just give you a blank look.
I don't receive many blank looks once people see the color of my skin and my cheekbones.
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:46
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Well, I don't stand out in terms of pantone skin colour, but I have a name that's not typically British. Many people ask me where I'm from or where my name is from. But I don't think its because they classify me as "foreign" but just because that's a good way to start some small talk. Even people whose pantone colour is obviously darker than mine or whose accent is more exotic than mine and who thus probably have a recent migration history will ask me where I'm from. And I don't mind telling them. But neither do I see why I shouldn't return the question. I think the problem is that some people are too easily offended and interpret the most innocent of questions or remarks as racial jibes.

This is one difference between the UK and the USA. In the USA everybody is always telling me unasked for where their grandparents came from and are proud of it (you only need to scroll upthread to see some examples). This trait seems to be fairly persistent across all racial groups, classes and occupations. In the UK you ask the same thing and you're deemed a racist.
I have a French first name with a Turkish last name (husband). People always ask me where I am from and they are too often surprised that I am from Canada ( the French part) my French doesn't have so much québécois in it, my English doesn't sounds French but has some tint of Spanish, Turkish and French accent. Some words are pronounce the British way, some American and even some Australian. Thanks to all the people I learned English from.

I am not quite completely white, more olive color so I pass easily for a Turkish, Spanish, Brazilian (), etc.

What I know about my heritage is a mix of French, Spanish, English, Irish and native.
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:46
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Thanks for sharing the photo. It's easy to understand what you mean if you're from one of the more well-known tribes, such as Cherokee. But if you're from a smaller tribe that's not as well-known, people will just give you a blank look.
Well, TBH, as an American, I was shocked by the number of ethnicities I've encountered since I lived here. I think there's a fair parallel between Native American tribes, and European ethnicities in this situation, both in terms of number and respective knowledge about the other continent's makeup.
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Old 28.01.2015, 18:53
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Don't really see it in Australia, which is an even younger country.
Young, yes, but 90% of Australians are of European descent, so it's really not the same thing at all.
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Old 28.01.2015, 19:08
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Here is one of many links I could have posted http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30994775

First of all, yes it was derpy and and apology was the right thing to do.

But I couldn't help wondering if he was actually trying to keep up with what seems to be preferred terminology in the US and made a mess of it.

I've always known that only embarassing old people would use "coloured", it used to be the preferred term a long time ago but it has been deemed inappropriate/offensive at least since I was born in the 80s. So, I remember being shocked the first time I heard an American TV presenter say "of color" as I thought it was basically the same thing. I assumed the presenter was ignorant and wondered why none of the audience seemed to look offended, but I heard it again and again after that, only on American TV though. Never heard it in England. I deduced that in the US it's not appropriate any more to use "black".

Given the context of what he was talking about I'm inclined to think he meant to say "of color".

American EF-ers, is it offensive/inappropriate in the US to say "black"?

Also what is the the preferred term used here??
The problem is this:- I grew up in England, and was born in the late '60's (not in that order ), we we told not to say 'Black' and to always say 'Coloured'. This was drummed in by everybody. At some point this changed but not everybody was aware of it (including me for many years). My automatic reaction now when I hear the word 'Black' when describing somebody is to cringe and change it to 'Coloured'. Can't help it, it was drummed in to me so far down it will stick forever. No offence is intended, but there you go, saying 'Black' just sounds wrong.
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  #92  
Old 28.01.2015, 19:36
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Young, yes, but 90% of Australians are of European descent, so it's really not the same thing at all.
And America is 70% European, but Europe is a big place with multiple ethnicities, you hear Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American etc, so why restrict Australia to just Europe?
In fact, both countries have around 10% Irish ancestery, so you would expect Irish-Australian to be as common as Irish-American, but it isn't.
What that means I do not know, are the Australians more secure in their national identity? Are they more forward thinking than stuck in the past? Do they feel less need to distinguish, classify and seperate? I don't know....
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Old 28.01.2015, 20:39
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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And America is 70% European, but Europe is a big place with multiple ethnicities, you hear Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American etc, so why restrict Australia to just Europe?
In fact, both countries have around 10% Irish ancestery, so you would expect Irish-Australian to be as common as Irish-American, but it isn't.
What that means I do not know, are the Australians more secure in their national identity? Are they more forward thinking than stuck in the past? Do they feel less need to distinguish, classify and seperate? I don't know....
Maybe it is to do with history, Americans are constantly told that they don't have any (compared to Europeans) so they hold on to the history of the family instead. Australians are always linked with criminal ancestors so they are keen to distance themselves from the past.

Probably not, but maybe ...
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Old 28.01.2015, 20:43
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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So.... Different countries have different faux pas and we shouldn't judge everyone by just one countries standards. I.e. If. British person uses a word that is offensive in one country but not in others then we should just let it go and concentrate on the issue he was talking about not just one word?
Depends on how sensitive the subject is. I had no idea "coloured" is offensive and black is more acceptable over there. Back home we use the term "of colour". (people of colour)
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Old 28.01.2015, 21:54
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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More to the point why are they going over there to act with cringeworthy American accents (Hugh Laurie, Damian Lewis, Alan Cumming etc..)?
Because they are making shit-loads of money?

Anyway, the accents, in some cases can't be too bad. I've heard it said that most US folks didn't know Laurie (in House) was in fact, not American...

Back on topic. Oddly enough although they (weird people) bitched and moaned about the term "coloured" (for the record, with a "u"), I note they failed - in the report posted at any rate - to explain what we should/might say...
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Old 28.01.2015, 22:18
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Because they are making shit-loads of money?

Anyway, the accents, in some cases can't be too bad. I've heard it said that most US folks didn't know Laurie (in House) was in fact, not American...

Back on topic. Oddly enough although they (weird people) bitched and moaned about the term "coloured" (for the record, with a "u"), I note they failed - in the report posted at any rate - to explain what we should/might say...
Oh, I guarantee you that millions and millions of Americans would say that Andrew Lincoln (Walking Dead) is their favorite actor and 99% of them have no idea that he is a Brit!
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Old 28.01.2015, 22:41
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Oh, I guarantee you that millions and millions of Americans would say that Andrew Lincoln (Walking Dead) is their favorite actor and 99% of them have no idea that he is a Brit!
So is Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy! Occasionally I can hear them slip up, I *think*!! House once said "Ant-EE-biotics", don't Americans say "Ant-EYE-biotics"?? I thought I'd heard Jax's accent slip once too. I've never noticed Rick Grimes do it though!
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Old 28.01.2015, 23:11
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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So is Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy! Occasionally I can hear them slip up, I *think*!! House once said "Ant-EE-biotics", don't Americans say "Ant-EYE-biotics"?? I thought I'd heard Jax's accent slip once too. I've never noticed Rick Grimes do it though!
Rick whispers so I wouldn't be able to hear if he did.
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Old 28.01.2015, 23:14
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Maybe it is to do with history, Americans are constantly told that they don't have any (compared to Europeans) so they hold on to the history of the family instead. Australians are always linked with criminal ancestors so they are keen to distance themselves from the past.

Probably not, but maybe ...
Well I think it's a shame more world history isn't taught in US schools. I mean, they all come from somewhere right? They might even learn a bit of geography too....
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Old 28.01.2015, 23:19
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Rick whispers so I wouldn't be able to hear if he did.
Rick Grimes is too busy doing Stuff and . . . Thangs to worry about his accent. P.S. If Rick dies, we riot.
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