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  #161  
Old 30.01.2015, 18:20
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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As an American, we never use 'colored', because during segregation and race riots, restaurants, toilets, drinking fountains were labels colored. So it is a slur.
But, again, if it's a slur, why doesn't "the nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization" remove it from their name?

It's not unprecedented; in UK, The Spastic Society renamed themselves to Scope.
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  #162  
Old 30.01.2015, 18:35
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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But, again, if it's a slur, why doesn't "the nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization" remove it from their name?

It's not unprecedented; in UK, The Spastic Society renamed themselves to Scope.
I believe that's another difference between US and UK in terminology, in US the term "spaz" or "spaz out" is not offensive am I right? (read it somewhere, few years ago, can't remember where, no link sorry!)
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  #163  
Old 30.01.2015, 19:14
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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As an American, we never use 'colored', because during segregation and race riots, restaurants, toilets, drinking fountains were labels colored. So it is a slur. Mostly we say African-American now. Don't know what they do in the UK….
We generally said Afro-Caribbean when I was younger. Now whatever we say it's offensive to someone so i guess we should just shut up. Sorry Lenny, no-one is allowed to talk about your call for more BAME in UK broadcasting. It may be found to be offensive and derogatory by someone in the US. Plus, he is a black man, he could never understand how asian* actors feel, or females of colour, or non-brummies......

*in the UK Asian means sub-continental, e.g. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc.


p.s. is this the first time Lenny Henry has been mentioned in this 9 page long discussion about What Benedict Cumberbatch Said?

Last edited by MsWorWoo; 30.01.2015 at 19:21. Reason: woh.... discussing the issue that BC raised... bad.
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  #164  
Old 31.01.2015, 11:53
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

It's a shame as I thought BC was pretty well educated. If he is speaking about lack of roles in film, he should have said 'minorities', because not only African Americans, but Hispanics, Latinos, Indians, Asians, older women, have trouble getting good roles….
On the terminology, I agree with some posts that you just don't even refer to people as race or skin color. Avoid it, as I am American, but I don't hear people say that 'German/Dutch B****'…..about me.
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  #165  
Old 31.01.2015, 14:29
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

I agree that there is usually no need to refer to someone by race or colour as it's most often irrelevant, eg one does not say "my black friend gave me this bracelet", "An Asian lady recommended the class to me" or "My hispanic co-worker eats an apple every day".

However, sometimes it is relevant to mention it. One example is when giving descriptions ("can you describe the person you saw leave the building at 2.30 "certainly, white female, small build, brown hair and eyes, wearing a t-shirt with cherries on...."

And of course in the cases where race issues are actually being discussed, such as in BC's interview where the subject had been raised by the interviewer
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  #166  
Old 31.01.2015, 17:20
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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It's a shame as I thought BC was pretty well educated. If he is speaking about lack of roles in film, he should have said 'minorities', because not only African Americans, but Hispanics, Latinos, Indians, Asians, older women, have trouble getting good roles….
On the terminology, I agree with some posts that you just don't even refer to people as race or skin color. Avoid it, as I am American, but I don't hear people say that 'German/Dutch B****'…..about me.
Yeah, you've not bothered reading this thread or watching the interview have you? But, please, let us know any other random thoughts you may have.
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  #167  
Old 03.02.2015, 15:55
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Maybe it is to do with history, Americans are constantly told that they don't have any (compared to Europeans) so they hold on to the history of the family instead. Australians are always linked with criminal ancestors so they are keen to distance themselves from the past.

Probably not, but maybe ...
For many years I was together with a GF from Uruguay and went over there many times. It was quite similar to the USA really in terms of people telling you about their ancestors. I was always surprised how much people knew about their family trees. I normally struggle to remember the names of those ancestors I never knew personally, but people there have no trouble reeling off their family tree back 5 generations or more. Uruguay has a lot of Italian, German, Portugese and even some English and Irish ancestry and some of the older folks still speak these languages although Spanish is about as dominant as English is in the USA, if not even more so. In the more rural parts of the country you see people who look as though they have native ancestors (they call them aboriginals there) although officially all the old tribes are considered extinct. There are also people of African descent, descended from slaves, but not very many as far as I could gather.

Uruguay hasn't had much recent immigration. Most people there came during the period ca 1840 to ca 1930. So it's not as if people haven't had the time to integrate and let go of their old identity.
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  #168  
Old 03.02.2015, 16:03
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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I do. I would have probably described you as "creole" a few years ago (probably that is offensive too in other countries), out of ignorance and not lack of respect.
Thanks for taking the time, at least now I know.
My understanding is that in its orginal meaning, creole has nothing to do with race but refers to a person whose ancestors immigrated but who considers themself native to the new country. Thus in the Caribbean, the creoles at one time set themselves apart from the older immigrants who still clung to the ways of their countries of origin. In New Orleans the creole kitchen is something people of all races indulge in, but which was created in the area. In Argentina of old tango music was sometimes referred to as creole because it was something they created themselves rather than the other music styles they listened to which they imported or brought with them from other countries.
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  #169  
Old 03.02.2015, 16:06
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Uruguay hasn't had much recent immigration. Most people there came during the period ca 1840 to ca 1930. .
There was a bit of immigration from a European country in 1945, too.

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So it's not as if people haven't had the time to integrate and let go of their old identity.
Have you been to Bariloche in Argentina?

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  #170  
Old 03.02.2015, 17:18
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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My understanding is that in its orginal meaning, creole has nothing to do with race but refers to a person whose ancestors immigrated but who considers themself native to the new country. Thus in the Caribbean, the creoles at one time set themselves apart from the older immigrants who still clung to the ways of their countries of origin. In New Orleans the creole kitchen is something people of all races indulge in, but which was created in the area. In Argentina of old tango music was sometimes referred to as creole because it was something they created themselves rather than the other music styles they listened to which they imported or brought with them from other countries.
Apart from all alternative meanings, in my native language it also means "someone of mixed races", a synonym for mulatto. It does sound better though, I don't know why.
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  #171  
Old 03.02.2015, 22:42
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Here is one of many links I could have posted http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30994775

First of all, yes it was derpy and and apology was the right thing to do.

But I couldn't help wondering if he was actually trying to keep up with what seems to be preferred terminology in the US and made a mess of it.

I've always known that only embarassing old people would use "coloured", it used to be the preferred term a long time ago but it has been deemed inappropriate/offensive at least since I was born in the 80s. So, I remember being shocked the first time I heard an American TV presenter say "of color" as I thought it was basically the same thing. I assumed the presenter was ignorant and wondered why none of the audience seemed to look offended, but I heard it again and again after that, only on American TV though. Never heard it in England. I deduced that in the US it's not appropriate any more to use "black".

Given the context of what he was talking about I'm inclined to think he meant to say "of color".

American EF-ers, is it offensive/inappropriate in the US to say "black"?

Also what is the the preferred term used here??

Martin Luther King Jr said the Negro is still not free and Robert Kennedy and Lyndon Baines Johnson were supporting the civil rights of coloured people. Nobody felt bad, And in the 1970ies, in Britain and the USA, nobody was offended by the term COLOUREDS


Go to Senegal and Gambia. Few people are really black and if you look around in the Mediterranean, few Folks are really White. Look into phone-books in Germany and you will see that NEGER is a family name of "White" Germans.
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  #172  
Old 03.02.2015, 23:10
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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I think it's Schaumkuss now. Though what the Scaums did to deserve that, I'm not sure.

Bloody Schaums, coming over here. Filling our chocolate.


To me, this










is still än Moorechopf

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  #173  
Old 03.02.2015, 23:27
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

CNN reports:

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  #174  
Old 03.02.2015, 23:36
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Look into phone-books in Germany and you will see that NEGER is a family name of "White" Germans.
As a German family name, Neger can be of latin origin but also from low-German neeg, plus the usual ending -er. Unrelated. But the coincidence is a fact, agreed.
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  #175  
Old 04.02.2015, 10:25
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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As a German family name, Neger can be of latin origin but also from low-German neeg, plus the usual ending -er. Unrelated. But the coincidence is a fact, agreed.
Can be, but is not.
Neger literally means nigger: http://dict.leo.org/#/search=Neger&s...dShowSingle=on
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  #176  
Old 04.02.2015, 10:47
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

Dave Chapelle did a comedy sketch poking fun at this situations:

I found it very funny, but it does use the n-bomb very generously so perhaps NSFW

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/mlg0y7...y---uncensored
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  #177  
Old 07.02.2015, 19:01
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Can be, but is not.
Neger literally means nigger: http://dict.leo.org/#/search=Neger&s...dShowSingle=on
I'm german, you really feel the need to tell me that? I gave you greenies for your sweetness. But when I intervene on language issues, it takes a lot to be able to correct me. Not modest, I know.
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  #178  
Old 07.02.2015, 19:53
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Martin Luther King Jr said the Negro is still not free and Robert Kennedy and Lyndon Baines Johnson were supporting the civil rights of coloured people. Nobody felt bad, And in the 1970ies, in Britain and the USA, nobody was offended by the term COLOUREDS


Go to Senegal and Gambia. Few people are really black and if you look around in the Mediterranean, few Folks are really White. Look into phone-books in Germany and you will see that NEGER is a family name of "White" Germans.

In South Africa the Black people refer to themselves as Black, the Coloureds call themselves Coloured, Indians are Indians. And White people are called White people.


Collectively they refer to themselves as the Rainbow Nation.


And when griping about each other in the news they use the separate descriptions as above.
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  #179  
Old 08.02.2015, 02:42
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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As a German family name, Neger can be of latin origin but also from low-German neeg, plus the usual ending -er. Unrelated. But the coincidence is a fact, agreed.
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Can be, but is not.
Neger literally means nigger
Well, that's both true as nigger is of Latin origin as well. It's the same word and while nobody would change their family name is it otherwise completely unacceptable in German.
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  #180  
Old 08.02.2015, 04:41
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Re: Benedict Cumberbatch race terminology discussion

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Can be, but is not.
Neger literally means nigger: http://dict.leo.org/#/search=Neger&s...dShowSingle=on


NEGER is NOT "Nigger" but clearly NEGRO
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