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  #181  
Old 13.02.2015, 16:21
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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BDS conducts an economic/cultural fight against Israel, holding it to very different benchmarks to every other nation - According to your definition above: This is antisemitic.

" I do not compare it to nations worse then it" - Arab countries are worse places than Israel. Who said you were not open to persuasion. We'll have you dancing in the Jersualem pride parade in no time.

"The Muslims I know are not antisemitic, hence most of 1.7 billion muslims are not antisemitic and anyone who claims they are is a racist". Dubious, personal, extrapolated, knowledge as proof. logical.
The BDS campaign is inspired by the economic BDS strategy carried out against white South Africa, which contributed to the end of apartheid there. Was the BDS campaign against apartheid South Africa was also racist? BDS exists to challenge Israeli government practices, and holds it to a benchmark appropriate to what Israel claims to be; a free, fair and equal society. BDS believes, as do millions of jews around the world, that the Israeli government is not judaism. They are two very different things, just like i said in an earlier post. Calling them anti-Semitic is just the laziest, most illogical, and ridiculous opposing argument i can think of. Try harder.

I never suggested Arab states were any better then Israel, i challenged that you cant hold Israel to their benchmark, but that the benchmark has to be the same for all. Something you have conveniently sidestepped. I don't blame you, i imagine you're running out of arguments.

Thanks for modifying my quote, i suppose the original text was not easy for you to challenge.

Personal? Hell yes. Because i don't stereotype, i don't tar all jews with the brush of the Israeli government. Just like your personal hatred, stereotyping, and racism towards all Muslims everywhere.
Extrapolated? yes, using the logic you supplied.
Knowledge as proof? where do i say that?

You asked me to tell you what proof you could provide. You cant provide it, so you resort to distorting what i said, and claiming i offer it as proof when i clearly do not. You are a little fragmented, pashosh. Take a moment to gather yourself.
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  #182  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:02
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

Israel and Apartheid South Africa are not even the same thing. SA denied its citizens rights based on their race. Israel doesn't. Non-Jewish Israelis can vote and participate in its democracy and can vote. It doesn't differentiate between races and religions. Its actions in regards to 'Palestinians' are responses to security issues. So the comparison between Apartheid South Africa and Israel doesn't really work for BDS.

I mean, what would the BDS attempt to accomplish? To overthrow a functioning democracy in order to bring about a totalitarian terrorist state? Duh. Good luck.
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  #183  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:18
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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The BDS campaign is inspired by the economic BDS strategy carried out against white South Africa, which contributed to the end of apartheid there. Was the BDS campaign against apartheid South Africa was also racist? BDS exists to challenge Israeli government practices, and holds it to a benchmark appropriate to what Israel claims to be; a free, fair and equal society. BDS believes, as do millions of jews around the world, that the Israeli government is not judaism. They are two very different things, just like i said in an earlier post. Calling them anti-Semitic is just the laziest, most illogical, and ridiculous opposing argument i can think of. Try harder.

I never suggested Arab states were any better then Israel, i challenged that you cant hold Israel to their benchmark, but that the benchmark has to be the same for all. Something you have conveniently sidestepped. I don't blame you, i imagine you're running out of arguments.

Thanks for modifying my quote, i suppose the original text was not easy for you to challenge.

Personal? Hell yes. Because i don't stereotype, i don't tar all jews with the brush of the Israeli government. Just like your personal hatred, stereotyping, and racism towards all Muslims everywhere.
Extrapolated? yes, using the logic you supplied.
Knowledge as proof? where do i say that?

You asked me to tell you what proof you could provide. You cant provide it, so you resort to distorting what i said, and claiming i offer it as proof when i clearly do not. You are a little fragmented, pashosh. Take a moment to gather yourself.
Read the BDS manifest - it wants to destroy Israel as a Jewish state, making Jews a minority in their own state. This is racist.

What do you mean then by "benchmark" - Israel's behaviour, in any aspect, is better than ALL Arab states.

You said that I can't prove that most muslims are antisemitic because the Muslims you know are not antisemitic. this is a simple logic fallacy which flies in the face of reality. Put on a kipa and walk thru a Muslim area to test your assumption.
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  #184  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:19
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Israel and Apartheid South Africa are not even the same thing. SA denied its citizens rights based on their race. Israel doesn't. Non-Jewish Israelis can vote and participate in its democracy and can vote. It doesn't differentiate between races and religions. Its actions in regards to 'Palestinians' are responses to security issues. So the comparison between Apartheid South Africa and Israel doesn't really work for BDS.

I mean, what would the BDS attempt to accomplish? To overthrow a functioning democracy in order to bring about a totalitarian terrorist state? Duh. Good luck.
Ah, you're back.

I never said that BDS was in response to Israel being an apartheid system (though plenty believe it is), it is, according to BDS:

'The global movement for a campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights'

The bolded section would be its objective, and i apologise that its not very scoff-worthy.

Nice attempt to convolute the point i made, though. Once you take that in to account, the rest of your point is kind of pointless.
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  #185  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:20
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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...
I mean, what would the BDS attempt to accomplish? To overthrow a functioning democracy in order to bring about a totalitarian terrorist state? Duh. Good luck.
Howe dare you suggest than an Arab state is always a totalitarian state ? There are so many which aren't like ...
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  #186  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:24
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Ah, you're back.

I never said that BDS was in response to Israel being an apartheid system (though plenty believe it is), it is, according to BDS:

'The global movement for a campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights'

The bolded section would be its objective, and i apologise that its not very scoff-worthy.

Nice attempt to convolute the point i made, though. Once you take that in to account, the rest of your point is kind of pointless.

Well, the pointless part of that is that its objective is not based on objectivity. The international law it asks Israel to comply with does not apply to a non-existent nation. That is why Israel's actions are not technically illegal.

Mind you, the BDS has been around for about a decade to not much avail.

By the way, I apologize for not responding to every single note and nuance you posted, cause I may not have read them all. So I don't know which point was being convoluted. What is the point again?
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  #187  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:33
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Read the BDS manifest - it wants to destroy Israel as a Jewish state, making Jews a minority in their own state. This is racist.

What do you mean then by "benchmark" - Israel's behaviour, in any aspect, is better than ALL Arab states.

You said that I can't prove that most muslims are antisemitic because the Muslims you know are not antisemitic. this is a simple logic fallacy which flies in the face of reality. Put on a kipa and walk thru a Muslim area to test your assumption.
Now you're just blatantly lying. Seriously, try a little harder.

The BDS manifest, from the BDS Website:

"The BNC’s mandate and role is:

• To strengthen and spread the culture of boycott as a central form of civil resistance to Israeli occupation, colonialism and apartheid;
• To formulate strategies and programs of action in accordance with the 9 July 2005 Palestinian Civil Society BDS Call;
• To serve as the Palestinian reference point for BDS campaigns in the region and worldwide;
• To serve as the national reference point for anti-normalization campaigns within Palestine;
• To facilitate coordination and provide support & encouragement to the various BDS campaign efforts in all locations.

The BNC’s main activities include:

• Campaigning with BDS activists locally and worldwide by preparing and disseminating BNC statements; public speaking; organizing the annual Global BDS Action Day on 30 March (Palestinian Land Day);
• Advocacy by briefing and lobbying policy makers;
• Monitoring & Rapid Response by means of BNC calls for action against projects and initiatives which amount to recognition of or cooperation with Israel’s regime of apartheid, colonialism and occupation (i.e., normalization);
• Media Outreach in Palestine and abroad, based on a professional media strategy;
• Coordination with BDS activists locally and worldwide, including preparation of regional and international organizing meetings and conferences;
• Awareness Raising & Training activists and organizations about BNC analysis, standards and BDS campaign work; through workshops, BNC information materials and the BDS campaign website (www.bdsmovement.net)
• Developing the BDS Campaign in Arab countries;
• Research and BDS Strategy Development"

I don't see the word 'Jew' anywhere. Nor any mention of cleansing Israel.


There you go again, comparing Israel to the arab states. That really is your only defense, isnt it?

The simplest benchmark is a respect for all human rights, for all humans. Israel fails, consistently. I could go in to detail about its many crimes, but lets face it, you don't want to hear about those, you're simply trying to derail the discussion. The fact is, Israel only looks good when compared to those worse than it. This whole thread is about land grabs and annexation, but you have yet to actually comment on that, instead discussing how all Muslims all wish all Jews were dead, and focusing the attention elsewhere.

Put on a taqiyah and walk through the IDF-guarded settlement where your home used to be. You will get far worse then insults, i assure you. Instead of making inane suggestions, how about you actually offer some evidence, of how all Muslims are inherently evil?

My reality is based on the real world i live in. I believe what i see, not what i am told by people who like to tell me what i should believe. And i don't see all Muslims hating Jews.
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  #188  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:48
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

"Put on a taqiyah and walk through the IDF-guarded settlement where your home used to be. You will get far worse then insults, i assure you."

1. What do settlements have to do with wearing a kipa in a Muslim area (even in Europe) ? If Muslims re not antisemitic there shouldn't be a problem wearing a kipa in Muslim areas in the UK, for example. But Muslims in the UK regularly attack Jews.

2. Plenty of Arabs work in settlements. Remember Soda Stream ?

3. Give me the name of 1 settlement built where Arab homes used to be. No Arab homes were demolished to make room for Jewish homes. Jews bought Arab houses in Jerusalem.

BDS calls for "Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194". I.e - making Jews a minority in their own state. It also calls for Boycotting ALL cultural and academic institutions.
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  #189  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:01
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

Look here -



This man "Put on a taqiyah and walk through the IDF-guarded settlement" and all he got was cheap kitchen paper.
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  #190  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:05
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

I had a look at the BDS website.
I could not find who runs it; I mean who is in the executive and also from where they get funding. There are no financial statements.

I am sure it is not the case that BDS is run by anonymous people who are filling their own pockets from donations
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  #191  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:06
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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1. What do settlements have to do with wearing a kipa in a Muslim area (even in Europe) ? If Muslims re not antisemitic there shouldn't be a problem wearing a kipa in Muslim areas in the UK, for example. But Muslims in the UK regularly attack Jews.
Lesson learnt through some conversations: If it seems positive, it can be attributed. If it is remotely critical, its got nothing to do with.

Furthermore, you're only allowed to box with one hand tied behind your back.

Because, otherwise, come on man, it's just not fair!
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  #192  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:10
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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"Put on a taqiyah and walk through the IDF-guarded settlement where your home used to be. You will get far worse then insults, i assure you."

1. What do settlements have to do with wearing a kipa in a Muslim area (even in Europe) ? If Muslims re not antisemitic there shouldn't be a problem wearing a kipa in Muslim areas in the UK, for example. But Muslims in the UK regularly attack Jews.

2. Plenty of Arabs work in settlements. Remember Soda Stream ?

3. Give me the name of 1 settlement built where Arab homes used to be. No Arab homes were demolished to make room for Jewish homes. Jews bought Arab houses in Jerusalem.

BDS calls for "Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194". I.e - making Jews a minority in their own state. It also calls for Boycotting ALL cultural and academic institutions.
Now you're just being ridiculous.

1. Regularly means quite often. Wheres your evidence to claim that muslims routinely attack jews wearing a Kipa? There will be incidents, as there will be of the reverse happening. Give me the evidence that shows it happens as often as you claim, or stop talking nonsense.

2. Remember when sodastream said they were going to close down the factory in the settlements? Remember when sodastream would not allow their muslim employees to take a break during iftar times in Ramadan?

3. Look back in this thread and you'll find the (non-arab) news sources that back this up. Don't bury your head in the sand when the evidence is there.

How you draw the conclusion that allowing people to return to their homes is equivalent to wanting to cleanse the land of jewish settlers is quite laughable. What you are saying here, is that the Palestinian people concerned should not be allowed to return to their homes, because somebody else lives there now. A ridiculous justification for an untenable position, supported by a complete lack of credible evidence. I'm seeing that pattern develop.
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  #193  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:13
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Look here -



This man "Put on a taqiyah and walk through the IDF-guarded settlement" and all he got was cheap kitchen paper.
Well, if a single photograph, from a questionable source, and with zero context says it, it must be true.

Sine you didn't include source of the photo the photo, i will do it for you.
Source of photo: http://muqata.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html

title of the page?
"The Muqata
Wherever I may be, my blog turns toward Eretz Yisrael"

Very impartial.

Date of the post: Tuesday, August 31, 2010

Very topical and relevant.
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  #194  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:16
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Now you're just being ridiculous.
Some of these statements are funny. They remind me of the SNL debates between Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtin where he starts of with "Jane, you ignorant slut!".



How about more gravitas, and less perspiration? Just a friendly thought for more weight to your posts.
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  #195  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:21
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Some of these statements are funny. They remind me of the SNL debates between Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtin where he starts of with "Jane, you ignorant slut!".



How about more gravitas, and less perspiration? Just a friendly thought for more weight to your posts.
How about you stick to the topic at hand and not try further diluting and derailing the thread?
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  #196  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:24
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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How about you stick to the topic at hand and not try further diluting and derailing the thread?
Sure, what's the topic now, and what was the point? So many thrown about in all kinds of directions.

Yes, the situation of Palestinians in the area is awful. I wish it could be resolved. Although, I don't believe it is solely Israel's doing, nor is the solution solely Israel's prerogative. It doesn't quite help when they are misgoverned by people motivated by rage and vengeance. It causes Israel to take on a very defensive posture. Its a hard sell to ask them to let their guard down.

Is that on topic?
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  #197  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:26
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Well, if a single photograph, from a questionable source, and with zero context says it, it must be true.
You guarnteed that Arabs will always be mistreated in Israeli settlements.

All it it took was one example (and there are many) to disprove your point.

Jews dont attack muslim in Britain. Muslims attack Jews.
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  #198  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:28
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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How about you stick to the topic at hand and not try further diluting and derailing the thread?
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Jews dont attack muslim in Britain. Muslims attack Jews.

Okay, I'll leave this here. You guys, don't hurt each other, alright? Have a great weekend, and Peace!
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  #199  
Old 13.02.2015, 18:53
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Okay, I'll leave this here. You guys, don't hurt each other, alright? Have a great weekend, and Peace!
Inshalla

Ma'a salame, ya jama'a (translation : see you later mitenand)
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  #200  
Old 14.02.2015, 07:34
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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You guarnteed that Arabs will always be mistreated in Israeli settlements.

All it it took was one example (and there are many) to disprove your point.

Jews dont attack muslim in Britain. Muslims attack Jews.

So-called Settlements are tools to drive OUT Arabs of Palestine. Arabs attack Jews in Britain ? Details please
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