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  #121  
Old 11.02.2015, 10:51
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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I provided clear examples of how Israel respects laws and property rights. I also acknowledged the IDF bulldozed homes citing security issues on occasions. But can you provide a source that Israel bulldozes house to make room for settlements? That the land is stolen from Palestinians? I haven't seen you provide one that they don't. Only expressions of irritation that someone somewhere in the world would dare challenge pop-Political sentiments. A lot of people do. Surprise?
Read my previous posts. You know, the ones that provide a number of news reports backing up my point, from a number of sources. Dont just pretend you dont see them.

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We are aware of those, and that was noted as an IDF response to clear borders and create "the buffer zone" to prevent terrorist attacks. They built walls along the line in most of those cases. I acknowledge the awfulness of that. I'm trying to understand an allegation that I believe is slander.

What I am trying to get to the bottom of is the allegation that Israel routinely bulldozes Palestinian homes to make room for settlements. And that Israel steals the land from the Palestinians. My understanding is that Israel builds on undeveloped and uninhabitted land, and respects private property and land deeds. I'm trying to see if anyone has any real source for their allegation, an opportunity to prove it if it is true, or if we can simply show it up as slander.
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to




So Muslim countries are antisemitic because of Israel ? What's your excuse about Christians, zoroastrians & Yazidis ? will you use this logic when the next Islamist terrorist attack happen - "As long as Muslims behave like that they will threatened" ?



Go on them, name these States that function "rather well"

You must have them on file, next to the list of Palestinian homes demolished to make room for settlements in the last decade, Algerian Glaciers & Purple Elephants.
Where do i say that? What i was saying (and it seems i do need to spell it out) is that Israel is contributing to the instability of the region. When it kills more than 2000 people(more than a quarter being children) then says it is acting in the interest of global jewry, there will of course be non-sanctioned blowback against global jewry, in the exact same way that IS has seen blowback against muslims globally in the wake of the terrorist attacks you love to mention. Are you suggesting the blowback against jews is different to the blowback against muslims? They are one and the same.

That list, by the way, would include Bahrain, Cyprus, Jordan, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Turkey and the UAE. In terms of 'functioning well' meaning having a solid infrastructure and a good economy, you can add Saudi Arabia and Iran
to that list, unpalatable as it is. Israel too, as its part of the discussion. I could press this point, but i think your prejudice might make it a moot point.


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Antisemitism means jew hatred . don't play semantics - your lies are bad enough (i.e: Israel demolishes the houses of terrorists and in the process demolishes the houses of 20 innocent families).

There were 265,000 in Morroco in 1948, now there are 2500 and numbers are declining. In Yemen the situation even worse.
How many of those in Morocco emigrated to Israel of their own volition? The vast majority i expect. Don't throw random numbers out pretending they back up your point when they clearly don't.

PS, Morocco isn't in the middle east. Its North Africa, but i don't expect you to pay any mind to that, since it doesn't fit your narrative of all Arabs being evil, antisemitic savages,.

i like the fact that even though i can provide proof, i'm still lying, according to that prejudiced, one-sided, judgmental mind of yours.
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  #122  
Old 11.02.2015, 10:54
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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What I am trying to get to the bottom of is the allegation that Israel routinely bulldozes Palestinian homes to make room for settlements. And that Israel steals the land from the Palestinians. My understanding is that Israel builds on undeveloped and uninhabitted land, and respects private property and land deeds. I'm trying to see if anyone has any real source for their allegation, an opportunity to prove it if it is true, or if we can simply show it up as slander.
Stop acting dense Phos, it's trivial to find that info.

Israels "Absentees Property Law" (and related) regulate that any Absentees Property can and will be confiscated by the "Custodian". The definition of Absentee ensures that no jew will ever fall under that definition while it encompasses basically all palestinians and arabs of neighboring countries.

By putting good use of the Wall and checkpoints Israel can arbitrarily restrict palestinean access to a given patch of land and thereby make sure the owner is indeed Absentee. And of course the law itself is full of arbitrary criteria (satisfaction of the Custodian, if Custodian thinks xy, etc) that allow for discrimination of any particular group.

Upon confiscation any building that has been built without the written permission of the Custodian becomes illegal and will be demolished (aka bulldozered). Since Israeli authorities don't retroactively issue building permits basically all buildings turn illegal upon confiscation. Any people on the property are considered to be there illegally and evicted. Additionally, the Custodian and his employees are protected by immunity in case they acted illegally.

Since Israels distorted laws make sure that basically all buildings are considered illegal once the land has been confiscated Israel can, based on their own discrimatory laws, easily claim that they hadn't had been built upon.
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  #123  
Old 11.02.2015, 11:01
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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How many of those in Morocco emigrated to Israel of their own volition? The vast majority i expect. Don't throw random numbers out pretending they back up your point when they clearly don't.

PS, Morocco isn't in the middle east. Its North Africa, but i don't expect you to pay any mind to that, since it doesn't fit your narrative of all Arabs being evil, antisemitic savages,.

i like the fact that even though i can provide proof, i'm still lying, according to that prejudiced, one-sided, judgmental mind of yours.
great post, but I slightly disagree in that many Jews would possibly have emigrated by their own volition because they felt unsafe or felt that they had a safer home to go to (Israel). Just conjecture on my behalf btw
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  #124  
Old 11.02.2015, 11:03
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

Well who would of thought that this thread would descend into a clusterfunk? Well I never.
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  #125  
Old 11.02.2015, 11:04
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

seriously what did you expect with the thread header? the posts are entirely relevant
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  #126  
Old 11.02.2015, 11:06
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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great post, but I slightly disagree in that many Jews would possibly have emigrated by their own volition because they felt unsafe or felt that they had a safer home to go to (Israel). Just conjecture on my behalf btw
I did think about that, but i would also suggest that a large number of Jews would have emigrated to Israel despite being comfortable, because they were told it was their moral and religious duty to do so, being that it is 'The Jewish Homeland' and so on...
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  #127  
Old 11.02.2015, 12:17
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Your purpose appears to be attempt to justify, as somehow legitimate, .....
....s in the support of an argument are unlikely to go unchallenged.
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Read my previous posts. You know, the ones that provide a number of news reports backing up my point, from a number of sources. Dont just pretend you dont see them.
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Stop acting dense Phos, it's trivial to find that info.

Israels "Absentees Property Law" (and related) regulate that any Absentees Property can and will be confiscated by the "Custodian". The definition of Absentee ensures that no jew will ever fall under that definition while it encompasses basically all palestinians and arabs of neighboring countries.

No, you still have not presented a legal case. You haven't identified a law that has been infracted, and the circumstances around the infraction.

me.anon: until you identify what was stolen, and who it was stolen from, it isn't theft.

jz: Your post is full of insinuating media reports, but does not contain a legal case either.

Urs: Your citation of Absentees Property Law adds to the point that Israel operates within the context of its Laws and adheres it. You and I may not agree with the law, but that is an opinion, not a legal determination.

The point here is that without a concrete legal case, these allegations of illegality stay just that; allegations. How do you call it illegal? What you're presenting is a moral case, not a legal one.
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  #128  
Old 11.02.2015, 13:18
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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About "You left out dozens of states in the same region.." Dozens?

Last time I checked there were only 16 countries in the Middle East (not counting Israel).
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The Arab League, which is in the Region, has 21 full members and one half-member. If you add Israel you have 23 states (= 2 dozens)
I thought we are talking about the Middle East which includes Iran, Turkey and Cyprus and these do not belong to the Arab league.
The Arab League includes a number of African countries who are not usually defined as Middle East, for example, Mauritania & Djibouti; they are usually defined as Africa.

Whatever there are certainly not dozens
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  #129  
Old 11.02.2015, 14:03
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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How do you call it illegal?
UN does, it's not just me.

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Urs: Your citation of Absentees Property Law adds to the point that Israel operates within the context of its Laws and adheres it. You and I may not agree with the law, but that is an opinion, not a legal determination.
The Holocaust was also legal by german laws.
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  #130  
Old 11.02.2015, 14:24
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Look at what happens when you appease tyrants, Merkel and Hollande rushed to Putin to avoid escalation, and he comes out more emboldened and dangerous.
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Good save there.

I thought for a second that you were unleashing Godwin.

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The Holocaust was also legal by german laws.
sigh
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  #131  
Old 11.02.2015, 15:21
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

Saudi Arabia forbids women from driving but that is enshrined in their law. Does that mean it is a righteous and acceptable practice that we shouldnt challenge?

Homosexuality is punishable by death in a lot of countries, according to their laws. Does that mean it shouldnt be challenged either, because it ahs a legal standing?

Your whole position is based on the notion that because they adhere to their own laws, its perfectly acceptable, and we shouldnt challenge it. Yet, were we to actually support that position, we would not be able to support gay people against persecution, nor consider it wrong that women cant drive.

Do you see the fallacy of your position? Or will you keep digging?
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  #132  
Old 11.02.2015, 15:25
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

The Middle east is a geographical region.

The Arab League is a union of states, based on a similar culture.

One is geography, one is demography. Can we not confuse the two?
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  #133  
Old 11.02.2015, 15:27
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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sigh

Its Godwins law, but it is appropriate here. It shows what can happen when you make excuses for a country, based on it following the rules it sets itself.
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  #134  
Old 11.02.2015, 16:31
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Its Godwins law, but it is appropriate here. It shows what can happen when you make excuses for a country, based on it following the rules it sets itself.
Aha, and Godwin's law makes an exception for that?

Good to know.
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  #135  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:06
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Read my previous posts. You know, the ones that provide a number of news reports backing up my point, from a number of sources. Dont just pretend you dont see them.
None of them, zero, 0 gave examples of Palestinian homes demolished to make room for Jewish homes.


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Where do i say that? What i was saying (and it seems i do need to spell it out) is that Israel is contributing to the instability of the region. When it kills more than 2000 people(more than a quarter being children) then says it is acting in the interest of global jewry, there will of course be non-sanctioned blowback against global jewry, in the exact same way that IS has seen blowback against muslims globally in the wake of the terrorist attacks you love to mention. Are you suggesting the blowback against jews is different to the blowback against muslims? They are one and the same.
The Gaza war was not "acting in the interest of global Jewry", it was to protect Israeli citizens, Jews & Arabs from Islamo Fascists who use theri pwn populatin as human shields. Had Israel acted like an Arab country (or even any other western one) there would be more Arab civilian casualities. Compare to Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Syria...

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That list, by the way, would include Bahrain, Cyprus, Jordan, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Turkey and the UAE. In terms of 'functioning well' meaning having a solid infrastructure and a good economy, you can add Saudi Arabia and Iran

to that list, unpalatable as it is. Israel too, as its part of the discussion. I could press this point, but i think your prejudice might make it a moot point.
I would love to see you tell a Cypriot, Turk or Iranian that they are Arab.
Israel is acting much more humanely than all the countries you mentioned (Including the Turks in Cyprus), yet you call only Israel "unpalatable " - Which is racist.

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How many of those in Morocco emigrated to Israel of their own volition? The vast majority i expect. Don't throw random numbers out pretending they back up your point when they clearly don't.

PS, Morocco isn't in the middle east. Its North Africa, but i don't expect you to pay any mind to that, since it doesn't fit your narrative of all Arabs being evil, antisemitic savages,.

i like the fact that even though i can provide proof, i'm still lying, according to that prejudiced, one-sided, judgmental mind of yours.


The Jews of Morroco left because life in Morocco was bad. It's bad enough for Muslim morrocans, and worse for minorities (Not to mention Saharawis, Who's land Morroc occupies but hardly get any attention).

I mentioned Morroco as a muslim country, not a middle eastern one.

There are almost no Jews left in ther middle east outside Israel becasue Arab countries are virulently Anti Semitic.
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  #136  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:16
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

Pashosh - Can you link me to the PDF that Israel disseminate for forum keyboard warriors to help people argue war crimes etc.?

Thanks
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  #137  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:21
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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Pashosh - Can you link me to the PDF that Israel disseminate for forum keyboard warriors to help people argue war crimes etc.?

Thanks
there you go
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  #138  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:31
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

So when are Israel going to demolish Pakistani homes so they can experience some freedom too?

Why are the pallys only allowed to enjoy the generosity of the Israeli government?
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  #139  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:36
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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So when are Israel going to demolish Pakistani homes so they can experience some freedom too?

Why are the pallys only allowed to enjoy the generosity of the Israeli government?
There is only one Israel so why the "are" ? you must have confused it with the 3 Palestines (Gaza, West Bank & Jordan)

Pakistanis demolish their own homes, schools & hotels - with the inhabitants still inside.
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  #140  
Old 11.02.2015, 17:47
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Re: Land Grab Palestine - OK ; Land Grab Ukraine - Not OK ;

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There is only one Israel so why the "are" ? you must have confused it with the 3 Palestines (Gaza, West Bank & Jordan)

Pakistanis demolish their own homes, schools & hotels - with the inhabitants still inside.
Just bad grammar.

So Israel isn't going to help Pakistan out like they help the Pallys out? I'm sure Pakistan is devastated
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