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  #61  
Old 02.05.2015, 12:42
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Indonesia's actions are reprehensible. and the country should be sanctioned in an extreme manner.

What a bunch of savages.

Tom
The question is...should they change their laws just to please the Western world?
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  #62  
Old 02.05.2015, 12:48
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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The question is...should they change their laws just to please the Western world?
Especially as some of the western world also punished with the death penalty.

U.S. - I'm looking at you here! Are the people of the U.S. a bunch of savages too?

After all, they are a democracy so it's ultimately the people of the U.S. who are choosing to keep the death penalty (in those states that use it).
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  #63  
Old 02.05.2015, 13:02
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

Yes those states in the U.S. that have the death penalty support a barbaric rule.
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  #64  
Old 02.05.2015, 15:20
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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It's good to be cynical in these cases and of course they have to prove they have been rehabilitated but surely as humans they deserve a second chance if they are truly sorry
Why?

As long as we're going to make this into a death penalty debate (again), you might as well back that assertion up. What is so inherently necessary about giving people another chance to ruin other peoples' lives?

No sympathy here. I tend towards pro death penalty anyway, but this really is a case of taking a really stupid risk in the name of greed. Youse pays your money and youse takes your chances.
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  #65  
Old 02.05.2015, 16:43
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Why?

As long as we're going to make this into a death penalty debate (again), you might as well back that assertion up. What is so inherently necessary about giving people another chance to ruin other peoples' lives?

No sympathy here. I tend towards pro death penalty anyway, but this really is a case of taking a really stupid risk in the name of greed. Youse pays your money and youse takes your chances.
I'm afraid I'm sometimes inclined to think (it's a rather "gut reaction") the same way, especially after I read some news.. But I'm sure it's not the way to go.
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  #66  
Old 02.05.2015, 23:54
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Why?

As long as we're going to make this into a death penalty debate (again), you might as well back that assertion up. What is so inherently necessary about giving people another chance to ruin other peoples' lives?

No sympathy here. I tend towards pro death penalty anyway, but this really is a case of taking a really stupid risk in the name of greed. Youse pays your money and youse takes your chances.
Back what up? I am saying that we should be cynical about criminals and their rehabilitation to make sure they are fully rehabilitated and wont commit the same crimes again
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  #67  
Old 03.05.2015, 12:13
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

Ok. So drugs are bad and kill millions each year worldwide. So drug dealers deserve death. What do financial speculators who cause the impoverishment of millions deserve? What about heads of state who impoverish their own countries through corruption? What about weapons manufacturers who sell to countries with clear records of human rights abuses? And on and on. Is it possible that we have an overdose of self righteousness here?
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  #68  
Old 03.05.2015, 12:29
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Ok. So drugs are bad and kill millions each year worldwide. So drug dealers deserve death. What do financial speculators who cause the impoverishment of millions deserve? What about heads of state who impoverish their own countries through corruption? What about weapons manufacturers who sell to countries with clear records of human rights abuses? And on and on. Is it possible that we have an overdose of self righteousness here?
It's also possible that any such comparisons are completely meaningless. Different cultures across the world and the millennia have different value sets - trying to impose our 'modern' 'Western' cultural values on other penal systems is a futile exercise and will never end in agreement.
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  #69  
Old 03.05.2015, 13:08
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

So Australia recalled its ambassador to Indonesia. I'm waiting now for the same move if the US executes an australian citizen.

Interestingly Australia's PM blasted the execution as "inhuman and cruel" while in 2002 John Horward supported the execution of terrorist behind the Bali bombing which killed several australians.

A frenchman, Serge Atlaoui was also sentenced to death and in the same group of foreigners. After heavy pressure from France and EU, his name was removed last minute from the list.
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Old 03.05.2015, 14:33
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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I agree it's very sad. On the other hand there is some personal choice in taking drugs so the smugglers are also to a certain extent just supplying demand.

In this specific case some of the drug smugglers were clearly rehabilitated. They should have been punished but not with their lives.
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Especially as some of the western world also punished with the death penalty.

U.S. - I'm looking at you here! Are the people of the U.S. a bunch of savages too?

After all, they are a democracy so it's ultimately the people of the U.S. who are choosing to keep the death penalty (in those states that use it).
US citizen here who is against the death penalty, ANYWHERE ! My US hero who fights tirelessly against the death penalty is :Helen Prejean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The University students who advocate against the death penalty, by saving innocent prisoners, with their diligent work and research : all for free. The have saved many a death row prisoner from execution. Don't tar all us US citizens with that brush, thank you !
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  #71  
Old 03.05.2015, 14:50
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

Michigan, the state where I partly live, abolished capital punishment in 1846, the first state of the Union to do so, almost 100 years before Switzerland (1944).
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  #72  
Old 03.05.2015, 14:55
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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It's good to be cynical in these cases and of course they have to prove they have been rehabilitated but surely as humans they deserve a second chance if they are truly sorry
Most people are "truly sorry", once they've been caught.
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  #73  
Old 03.05.2015, 15:11
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

You don't know that tbf. People can also have remorse for the past
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Old 03.05.2015, 15:13
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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You don't know that tbf. People can also have remorse for the past
I'm almost certain that Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran would have felt deeply remorseful for their actions by now, whether they'd been caught or not. They seemed that type of person.
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  #75  
Old 03.05.2015, 15:16
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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US citizen here who is against the death penalty, ANYWHERE ! My US hero who fights tirelessly against the death penalty is :Helen Prejean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The University students who advocate against the death penalty, by saving innocent prisoners, with their diligent work and research : all for free. The have saved many a death row prisoner from execution. Don't tar all us US citizens with that brush, thank you !
Oh come on, admit it - we're all just a big bunch of savages.
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  #76  
Old 03.05.2015, 16:04
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Oh come on, admit it - we're all just a big bunch of savages.
Oh come on, everybody knows that Conan The Barbarian was an Austrian.
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  #77  
Old 03.05.2015, 16:07
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Oh come on, everybody knows that Conan The Barbarian was an Austrian.
lol..noh in d'schwiiz.
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  #78  
Old 25.07.2016, 23:20
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

The possibility of a fresh mass execution in Indonesia is raising it's ugly head again, and Frenchman Serge Atlaoui is back on the list,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/28/indonesia-firing-squads-year-after-bali-nine-executions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Indonesia

http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2016/apr/28/death-row-indonesia-prisoners-firing-squad

.

Last edited by Sbrinz; 25.07.2016 at 23:38.
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