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  #21  
Old 11.03.2015, 16:36
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Today oh great scorners, I thought up a politically correct reason why there are so many Muslims in UK prisons. Haven't you noticed the smaller rise in other religions, the Sikhs and Jews? .
Sikhs and Jews are more adept to running family businesses and getting on with it in life. They look after each other through every crisis. And have the smarts to get an education.

Those Christian types just cherry-picked the easiest bits from the Old Testament after the Jews spent absolutely ages writing it all out. Edit and delete a few compulsory stoning sentences and bring in Jesus as an early Chuck Norris and you have a new religion.
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  #22  
Old 11.03.2015, 20:35
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

There are things allowed in Islam that is not allowed in Western cultures, and vice versa. If we were to transplant a large number of Brits, Americans and Aussies to an Islamic country, I bet you there would be an even greater number of Western "criminals" under Islamic law. Most of us would be in deeeep shite.

I see no mystery here. Those "experts" citing socio-economics are just punting for publicly funded projects.
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  #23  
Old 11.03.2015, 20:36
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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The general Muslim population in the UK has been rising slowly but steadily, in 2011 there were 4.8%, no news there, but the rise in convictions of Muslim criminals has rocketed. Maybe the police have been better at catching them? Or maybe there are more of them about? Muslims account for 4.8% of general population, but now make up 14.4% of the prison population.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31794599



They by average are much younger than the average population. And the 20 to 35 age group is more involved in criminal things than other age groups
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  #24  
Old 11.03.2015, 20:50
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I think the figures correlate with any dissatisfied portion of a minority group that refuse to settle down and fully integrate into the countries they settle in due to language or culture issues. The unskilled and unemployed elements will often turn to crime when all else fails.
I don't understand why this is a problem in some countries, while not in others?

Look at the Americas, the immigrant population, including Muslim and other minorities all are more educated than the average person. They are fully integrating and within 20 years, the rates level off.

Anyhow, I don't think that it just so happens the muslim immigrants in the UK refuse to integrate while the muslim immigrants in the US and Canada are nice and toasty and at home in -30°C weather, advanced degree in hand.
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  #25  
Old 11.03.2015, 20:54
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I don't understand why this is a problem in some countries, while not in others?
Because all immigrants are not equal.
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  #26  
Old 11.03.2015, 20:58
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I don't understand why this is a problem in some countries, while not in others?

Look at the Americas, the immigrant population, including Muslim and other minorities all are more educated than the average person. They are fully integrating and within 20 years, the rates level off.

Anyhow, I don't think that it just so happens the muslim immigrants in the UK refuse to integrate while the muslim immigrants in the US and Canada are nice and toasty and at home in -30°C weather, advanced degree in hand.
I believe the difference is the liberal mindset in political matters. UK liberals will pander to Muslim criminals out of guilt, and even blame themselves for their crimes. The US have weak liberals, and the country is leans more on the conservative right. There, everyone is on their own to take care of their own, or face your own consequences.
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Old 11.03.2015, 20:59
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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UK liberals will pander to Muslim criminals out of guilt,
Then why are there so many more Muslims in prison than before?

Come on, Phos. You used to be a much more entertaining troll than this.
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  #28  
Old 11.03.2015, 21:17
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I don't understand why this is a problem in some countries, while not in others?

Look at the Americas, the immigrant population, including Muslim and other minorities all are more educated than the average person. They are fully integrating and within 20 years, the rates level off.

Anyhow, I don't think that it just so happens the muslim immigrants in the UK refuse to integrate while the muslim immigrants in the US and Canada are nice and toasty and at home in -30°C weather, advanced degree in hand.
Your logic fails on some important levels.

1) It's been much easier to get into the UK than America from the Asia/ME.
2) The UK has a far higher proportion of Muslims per 1000 people than North America... we have half the overall number of Muslims and our country/population is far smaller.
3) I didn't say all Muslims, I said a proportion of. The kind of proportion that would be realistic in a place where all Muslims were not the advanced degree-holding type that seem to exist in your fantasy land.

Do the maths.

Last edited by Richdog; 11.03.2015 at 21:27.
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  #29  
Old 11.03.2015, 23:59
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Then why are there so many more Muslims in prison than before?

Come on, Phos. You used to be a much more entertaining troll than this.
I'm sure many factors including racial profiling and increase of surveillance as a reaction to terrorist threats. Duration of time provide increase of activities, including activities that break the law. Not all transgressions are caught on their first infraction, nor do they necessarily get caught in any particular year. Some get caught on their first transgression, some get caught on their 10th.

So say for example I habitually drink and drive. I have driven many times and had not gotten caught. I've had close calls. My colleagues also don't get caught, we all do it. We start to think getting caught is only for the unlucky, plus we know cops who don't think its a big deal. This raises my confidence in not getting caught, so I continue to drink and drive. But it should not be a surprise that I one day get caught. So you can find an increase in drunk driving convictions without a rise in the number of people who drink and drive.

By the way, any statistics on what crimes they are convicted for?
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  #30  
Old 12.03.2015, 00:09
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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By the way, any statistics on what crimes they are convicted for?
Car crime and burglary in socio-economic deprived areas. Pretty standard stuff. Sorry to disappoint you.

There's a report here in the British Journal of Criminology
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  #31  
Old 12.03.2015, 00:09
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Your logic fails on some important levels.

1) It's been much easier to get into the UK than America from the Asia/ME.
2) The UK has a far higher proportion of Muslims per 1000 people than North America... we have half the overall number of Muslims and our country/population is far smaller.
3) I didn't say all Muslims, I said a proportion of. The kind of proportion that would be realistic in a place where all Muslims were not the advanced degree-holding type that seem to exist in your fantasy land.

Do the maths.
Muslims in America seem to fare better than Muslims in Europe. The Muslims I've know have been very straight laced and disciplined, showing very little tolerance or interest in deviancy. Apart from verbal abuse encountered from rednecks, especially during International problems with the Middle East, they hold their own very well. I've never heard anyone single out a Muslim out of bigotry. I have seen many many more single out other races and sexual orientations.

Here's one article that spells that "fantasy land" out:
Islamic, yet integrated
http://www.economist.com/news/united...yet-integrated
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  #32  
Old 12.03.2015, 00:11
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I don't understand why this is a problem in some countries, while not in others?

Look at the Americas, the immigrant population, including Muslim and other minorities all are more educated than the average person. They are fully integrating and within 20 years, the rates level off.

Anyhow, I don't think that it just so happens the muslim immigrants in the UK refuse to integrate while the muslim immigrants in the US and Canada are nice and toasty and at home in -30°C weather, advanced degree in hand.
What a load of old garbage!

Then explain us why Canada is preparing a new anti-terror legislation, known as Bill C-51, supported by most Canadians including my wife and all her relatives?

You said advanced degree in hand?

- Most 9/11 terrorists were university educated!
- Jihadi John who has been involved in multiple grisly beheadings is a computer science graduate.
- The Boston Marathon brothers were more educated than most Americans.

Well-educated doesn't mean you are also well-integrated.

Not all Muslims are integrating well in Canada: true with many Malaysians, Lebanese, Persians, Kurds and Palestinians; definitely not true with many Somalis, Maghrébins, Turks, Azeris, Salafi Arabs....

In Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Benelux, most Turks have difficulties integrating and lag significantly behind Kurds and Tamils who integrate much better.

http://www.dw.de/study-shows-turkish...many/a-3975683
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  #33  
Old 12.03.2015, 00:14
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Car crime and burglary in socio-economic deprived areas. Pretty standard stuff. Sorry to disappoint you.

There's a report here in the British Journal of Criminology
Not disappointed at all. I'm glad to hear its not violent crime. So these guys can do these for years without getting caught. The more they do it, the higher the chances of getting caught, all without raising the proportion of the population.

In many case, though I don't know a particular one here, going to jail is like getting a merit badge. it adds to street credibility. So there may be a sub-culture attached to it. In the street gangs that I know of, having been in the slammer is almost a prerequisite for certain stature.

Last edited by Phos; 12.03.2015 at 13:01.
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  #34  
Old 12.03.2015, 00:28
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

The statistics may say muslims but correlation is not causality.

I wonder if they fact that they are muslim is incidental to the fact that they belong to certain cultural groups? If they are descendants of the Kashmiri diaspora of the 60s and 70s, then the fact that they are muslim is not really the defining characteristic, for example.
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  #35  
Old 12.03.2015, 00:44
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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The statistics may say muslims but correlation is not causality.
Reading between the lines; the prisoner arrives at jail reception. The guards ask what his religion is, they write the answer down. On the BBC list there is no mention of gangs, nor nationality, just religion. The answer can also be "no religion." So please let's not complicate things.

The numbers are of convicted criminals, convicted "Beyond reasonable doubt." They are not anything to do with victims of racial prejudices.
The religions are mentioned because somebody noticed a big increase in one religion. You can read, there is a general rise in convictions across all regions.

.

Last edited by Sbrinz; 12.03.2015 at 00:56.
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  #36  
Old 12.03.2015, 08:11
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I don't think he ever incited people to riot. In fact on the contrary, radical elements of Jewish society at the time were expecting him to lead a rebellion and overthrow Roman rule, but he never did this. This is the reason Judas finally decided to betray him, beleiveing that if Jesus was physically assaulted by the Romans he could be provoked into fighting back and that the incident could escalate into a rebellion. Of course that didn't happen and Judas - who never wanted to see Jesus dead - himself committed suicide.


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Are you sure about Judas? That's not what it says in the Bible.
The betrayal by Judas of Jesus was planned. See St.John 13 / 22. Here Jesus tells that he will be betrayed and even gives Judas a 'sop' to show that he knows who the betrayer will be. After receiving the sop - according to the Bible - Satan entered Judas. To keep it short, Judas was used by some sort of supernatural power, if you like to call it that, but as it was part of a plan - presumably marking Judas as a betrayer since the day he was born it can hardly be said that Judas was guilty. The poor soul was just another of those misused by religion to achieve some sort of end. It is also odd that you know he committed suicide - I can't find this ending in the Bible. There is also the odd fact that Judas had to kiss Jesus in order to show who he was - although multitudes knew this already...
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  #37  
Old 12.03.2015, 09:23
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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In the street gangs that I know of, having been in the slammer is almost a prerequisite for certain stature.
Not it's not, absolutely not true, nobody has been in the Slammer…

I think that a lot in this thread are missing the point, most criminal moslems in JAaaiIL are (let's call a spade a spade) of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin followed by Caribbean and African, however to have an objective base for argument you would have to look at what kind of crimes have been committed, rape is very high on the list (read grooming) followed by drugs and theft, you know usual non Islam stuff, but I think that the real reason the word "Muslim" gets used as a prefix is something else:
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Amal Imad, of the charity Muslim Aid, suggested that poor educational performance, problems finding fulfilling jobs and family breakdown were factors in the increasing numbers of Muslims behind bars. She said: “It may be that they can’t integrate into society, they don’t think they have a positive chance to integrate into society.”
Taken from that I would say that scenario is a petri dish for the toxic Wahabism that liberal british do-gooders have allowed to flourish in society it gives disfranchised Muslims the feeling of worth and a belonging to an ideal, that these ideals are incompatible to the rest of society is only secondary.
This Wahabism is using or better corrupting normal human behavior, as we know "youth" has the common sense Allah gave a bag of hammers and will blindly follow anything or anyone that gives a sense of purpose, and yes I do see this as a connection between Wahabism and the rise of nazism or any other toxic "ism" you care to mention.
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  #38  
Old 12.03.2015, 10:41
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Look at the Americas, the immigrant population, including Muslim and other minorities all are more educated than the average person.
So you're implying Geronimo was stupid, and deserved to be defeated?
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  #39  
Old 12.03.2015, 10:51
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I believe the difference is the liberal mindset in political matters. UK liberals will pander to Muslim criminals out of guilt, and even blame themselves for their crimes. The US have weak liberals, and the country is leans more on the conservative right. There, everyone is on their own to take care of their own, or face your own consequences.
I think the UK also leans more to the conservative right than it does to the left. The Tories have had many more years in power than Labour during the last 30 years or so. Labour rarely even won a second term.

I'm not sure that I'd agree either that people pander to Muslims out of a guilt complex. That does exist, sure. But I don't think its a general thing.
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Old 12.03.2015, 11:04
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Car crime and burglary in socio-economic deprived areas. Pretty standard stuff. Sorry to disappoint you.

There's a report here in the British Journal of Criminology
Sorry to ask this but it will prevent me from slogging through the article again with a dictionary.

Is the article stating that Muslims are being goaded into criminal behaviour? If yes then this is hardly surprising. Many governments like to have the population fighting each other as just another way of diverting attention away from the activities of the establishment.

Good link though. Cheers.
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