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  #61  
Old 12.03.2015, 16:27
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Well if the mountain won't come to the Dutch...the Dutch must go to the mountain...
Can't they meet half way and go dutch?
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  #62  
Old 12.03.2015, 16:38
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Any chance it has anything to do with the number of actual crimes committed?

Not quite sure here- are you naïve or ... something else. Why are more crimes in the USA committed by blacks or in France by people of North AFrican origin? Are you sure history has no influence here- chicken or egg?
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  #63  
Old 12.03.2015, 17:00
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Not quite sure here- are you naïve or ... something else. Why are more crimes in the USA committed by blacks or in France by people of North AFrican origin? Are you sure history has no influence here- chicken or egg?

History is a cop out. Jews aren't exactly going on a rampage in Europe, nor the Chinese in America, nor the Irish in the UK, etc. Its a narrative that you've been abused and mistreated, so you therefore are entitled to some payback. Except I don't exactly understand how in the case of Muslims.

BTW, there sure is a lot of Muslim threads here. I thought this thread was looking about Muslim tires: ZH FS: Michelin tires

A bit much, isn't it?
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  #64  
Old 12.03.2015, 17:33
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Can't they meet half way and go dutch?
and take some Dutch courage.
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  #65  
Old 12.03.2015, 17:50
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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And which is the indigenous population in Britain?
Regards
These guys.



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  #66  
Old 12.03.2015, 18:19
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I don't understand why this is a problem in some countries, while not in others?

Look at the Americas, the immigrant population, including Muslim and other minorities all are more educated than the average person. They are fully integrating and within 20 years, the rates level off.

Anyhow, I don't think that it just so happens the muslim immigrants in the UK refuse to integrate while the muslim immigrants in the US and Canada are nice and toasty and at home in -30°C weather, advanced degree in hand.

>> Why is the average people in the USA so LESS educated than the immigrants ?
>> Can you prove your allegation that Asian and MidEastern immigrants in Europe are not integrated ? not even after 20 years ?
>> How do you conclude that the refusers you mention are representative in any way ?


And when reading here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...tion_Committee
what you state in your Märchenstunde does no longer sound realistic at all

Last edited by Wollishofener; 12.03.2015 at 18:29.
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Old 12.03.2015, 18:47
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Well if the mountain won't come to the Dutch...the Dutch must go to the mountain...

Regrettable. If the Alps were sent over to the Netherlands, we could see, from the Uetliberg to the Mediterranean (provided we have eyes like Governor Palin)
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  #68  
Old 12.03.2015, 18:50
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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I think the figures correlate with any dissatisfied portion of a minority group that refuse to settle down and fully integrate into the countries they settle in due to language or culture issues. The unskilled and unemployed elements will often turn to crime when all else fails.
Richdog nailed it. That is the biggest problem.
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  #69  
Old 12.03.2015, 21:01
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

Unlikely to happen. MrsNickAtBasel informed me reliably that the Dutch prefer cycling into wind to cycling up mountains.

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Regrettable. If the Alps were sent over to the Netherlands, we could see, from the Uetliberg to the Mediterranean (provided we have eyes like Governor Palin)
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  #70  
Old 13.03.2015, 08:46
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

An aspect that I find more worrying here in the US, is that low level offenders, people who really should not have locked up (found with a small amount of marijuana, drunk and disorderly etc) get caught in a downward spiral while incarcerated. They then become bitter, want to buck the system and become radicalized. The majority of these men are Black ( Jim Crow laws still in effect) and to a lesser degree poor whites.

We recently had a young American man come to do some skilled work at the house. He started to quiz my husband about my husband's Muslim name. Through conversation, my husband realized that this man, seemingly born and bred in the US with a non-Muslim name, could not only read and write Arabic but had in-depth knowledgeable of the Koran, although he denied being a Muslim.

We relayed this experience to another skilled worker and he said, he may have become Muslim in Prison.

At first I thought this likely, then this week we had another foreman at the house. I heard the labourers speaking Mandarin, I turned and saw there was an American speaking Mandarin, seemingly fluently. I asked later if he had learned the language from being in China or had any Chinese relatives. He said that he had no Asian relatives, he just picked it up from hearing it and got himself a self-teach book.

We live in the Bay Area, where people take a real interest in different cultures, but still, documentaries show that there definitely are young men who become Muslim in Prison.

For this reason, and the gangs in prison, I wish that they would stop different cultures and religions from creating their own groups and excluding others. Instead prisons should institute cultural awareness education. There should be a system for rewarding prisoners who demonstrate a concerted effort to socialize across cultures equally.

Last edited by Hoppy; 13.03.2015 at 08:50. Reason: Tidied up.
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  #71  
Old 13.03.2015, 08:53
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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History is a cop out. Jews aren't exactly going on a rampage in Europe, nor the Chinese in America, nor the Irish in the UK,[snip]
Er, whut?

You need to pull your head out of your arse, Phos, and get some good solid reading in. Have you heard of the IRA? The Birmingham pub bombings? The strikes and demonstrations that followed? The abuse of Irish citizens in the city, including people who'd lost family members in the attacks?

The parallels between the Irish in the 20th century and the Muslims in the 21st are many.

Like I said, this is a symptom of society, and every society has its "awkward" minority. I'm struggling to think of any time or place that didn't.
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  #72  
Old 13.03.2015, 08:59
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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Er, whut?

You need to pull your head out of your arse, Phos, and get some good solid reading in. Have you heard of the IRA? The Birmingham pub bombings? The strikes and demonstrations that followed? The abuse of Irish citizens in the city, including people who'd lost family members in the attacks?

The parallels between the Irish in the 20th century and the Muslims in the 21st are many.

Like I said, this is a symptom of society, and every society has its "awkward" minority. I'm struggling to think of any time or place that didn't.
You scare me. I think my next trip to UK will be in about 20 years from now on. I'm not really entertained by public beatings of "foreigners" and mob lynchings in the streets.
What has become of the greatest country in Europe....
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  #73  
Old 13.03.2015, 09:03
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

Another probability is that after the Arab Spring, the new regimes gave a general amnesty and released all the criminal & political prisoners. Some of these sought asylum in Europe and then continued with their criminal ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring
By January 2015, rulers had been forced from power in Tunisia, Egypt (twice), Libya, and Yemen (twice); civil uprisings had erupted in Bahrain and Syria major protests had broken out in Algeria, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Israel and Sudan; and minor protests had occurred in Mauritania, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, Western Sahara, and Palestine. Weapons and Tuareg fighters returning from the Libyan Civil War stoked a simmering conflict in Mali which has been described as "fallout" from the Arab Spring in North Africa.
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  #74  
Old 13.03.2015, 10:18
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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You scare me. I think my next trip to UK will be in about 20 years from now on. I'm not really entertained by public beatings of "foreigners" and mob lynchings in the streets.
What has become of the greatest country in Europe....
It's always been like that in the U.K.

People have always fought for what they believe truly, or falsely are injustices.
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Old 13.03.2015, 10:27
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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An aspect that I find more worrying here in the US, is that low level offenders, people who really should not have locked up (found with a small amount of marijuana, drunk and disorderly etc) get caught in a downward spiral while incarcerated. They then become bitter, want to buck the system and become radicalized. The majority of these men are Black ( Jim Crow laws still in effect) and to a lesser degree poor whites.
There are certain crimes that are completely victimless and are just used to subjugate people to a patriarchical society, purely through punishment and fear. These, really, are counter-productive to society and should be abolished. I think these laws and crimes damage society more than it serves it.

But then there are crimes with real victims and cause real damage to society. These need to be prosecuted impartially and prosecuted to the fullest extent. These should not be negotiated by law enforcement, lawyers, social workers and judges. Without this, people will be exacting their own sense of justice on each other. Without justice, you would have chaos and no peace, and not much basis for a civil society.

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What has become of the greatest country in Europe....
Germany? It is doing great.
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  #76  
Old 13.03.2015, 10:49
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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An aspect that I find more worrying here in the US, is that low level offenders, people who really should not have locked up (found with a small amount of marijuana, drunk and disorderly etc) get caught in a downward spiral while incarcerated. They then become bitter, want to buck the system and become radicalized. The majority of these men are Black ( Jim Crow laws still in effect) and to a lesser degree poor whites.
I think many are already radicalized before they even get caught. The whole rap music thing with its celebration of drugs, crime and bad attitudes to work and learning is creating young people who start life on the wrong foot. Add to the equation poorly trained cops, single parent households and peer pressure and you've got a cycle and dynamism that's very difficult to break.

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We recently had a young American man come to do some skilled work at the house. He started to quiz my husband about my husband's Muslim name. Through conversation, my husband realized that this man, seemingly born and bred in the US with a non-Muslim name, could not only read and write Arabic but had in-depth knowledgeable of the Koran, although he denied being a Muslim.

We relayed this experience to another skilled worker and he said, he may have become Muslim in Prison.
He may also have learned it in the armed forces. I have met several people in the US who had served in Afghanistan or Iraq and came back speaking one if not several of the local languages fluently. I understand that soldiers with a gift for languages are encouraged to do so to act as liasons with the local population.

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At first I thought this likely, then this week we had another foreman at the house. I heard the labourers speaking Mandarin, I turned and saw there was an American speaking Mandarin, seemingly fluently. I asked later if he had learned the language from being in China or had any Chinese relatives. He said that he had no Asian relatives, he just picked it up from hearing it and got himself a self-teach book.
That was smart of him. I guess if you have to lead people it makes it easier if you can speak to them in their own languages and understand their culture. Cue the many expat managers in Switzerland who live in their own expat bubble.
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  #77  
Old 13.03.2015, 11:51
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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It's always been like that in the U.K.
You mean like persecuting and beating up Muslims?
DB has got me convinced about the absolute terror Muslim citizens experience in your country, and the imminent danger of a new Holocaust.
You must stop all these actions people!

Now where's Hoppy to back me up?

Last edited by greenmount; 13.03.2015 at 11:56. Reason: heh
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  #78  
Old 13.03.2015, 12:33
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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The whole rap music thing with its celebration of drugs, crime and bad attitudes to work and learning is creating young people who start life on the wrong foot.
steady on! almost all of pop music is based on the above bad attitudes and you can throw in sex for good measure
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  #79  
Old 13.03.2015, 12:57
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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You mean like persecuting and beating up Muslims?
That's not what I meant. That's not what I wrote.


But yes, don't visit the U.K. It's far too dangerous for you.
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:39
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Re: Rise in UK convicted Muslim prisoners

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You mean like persecuting and beating up Muslims?
DB has got me convinced about the absolute terror Muslim citizens experience in your country, and the imminent danger of a new Holocaust.
You must stop all these actions people!

Now where's Hoppy to back me up?
Unfortunately there has always been a pecking order in the UK, it is such a classist society. When I was young it was called 'Paki-bashing'. In the North is was almost like an induction ceremony at school, if you survived it and still wanted to be part of the society then you were accepted. I think that we just hear more about it now because of social media.

In response to Amogles, I never thought about soldiers learning languages- that's a good point.

However, I like rap. My son's father was Muslim. I raised him on Rap and of course Classical music, Beatles etc. I divorced and was a single parent. He attended inner London schools where he was the only white student. Quite a few in my family have succumbed to the odd 'toke'. My nephew, that my son grew up with was a MC/DJ, I am sure as teens they engaged in the usual rebellious activities, but luckily never got caught. My son also rapped, studied law and finance and now has a highly respectable position in the banking world, drug-free, settled, raising money for charity, earning more than I ever earned at this age. I thinkthat Rap really helped him express himself during a difficult adolescent period.
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