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  #41  
Old 18.03.2015, 08:44
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

Must just be the submarines that are rust buckets then...

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  #42  
Old 18.03.2015, 09:55
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Earlier Soviet leaders were accountable for communist party. Probably now Russia is taking example from the Western world where President is accountable for those who invested big buck in his election complain. You did not dare to think, that all is done on the money of voters, who counts every cent in everyday life, right?
Except in Western democracies, there are actual candidates and elections. Can anyone name who ran against Putin in the last 3 Russian "elections"?
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Old 18.03.2015, 10:11
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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I am just very happy not to be one of those Russian sailors performing exercises in the Artic in one of those ancient, rusty Russian warships. Just hope none of them sink.
...hopefully they have great coordinates for observing "the" eclipse
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  #44  
Old 18.03.2015, 10:49
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Possibly not so bad after all
Lol Wollie you are funny.
The number 121 was launched in 1979!! And is the Black Sea flagship - imagine how old the rest of the fleet is.
157 was sold to China 10 years ago.

The photos must be 30 years old
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Old 18.03.2015, 10:57
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

Oh and the carrier is from 1978 and is now called the INS Vikramaditya after being sold to India in '04.
Some interesting insights here from Reutershttp://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/27/russias-navy-more-rust-than-ready/
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Old 18.03.2015, 11:22
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Oh and the carrier is from 1978 and is now called the INS Vikramaditya after being sold to India in '04.
Some interesting insights here from Reutershttp://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/27/russias-navy-more-rust-than-ready/
Lol, i wondered why I could not find any reference to it.
Russia only has one active carrier so I thought 69 was sold or scrapped
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  #47  
Old 18.03.2015, 11:25
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

Actually come to think about it, it could be potentially more dangerous for Russia/Putin not to have a modern army, be it navy, air force or ground troops.
With his back to the wall and not many options for conventional war it could be that the nuke card gets played before anybody can come to their senses.
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Old 18.03.2015, 11:55
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Actually come to think about it, it could be potentially more dangerous for Russia/Putin not to have a modern army, be it navy, air force or ground troops.
With his back to the wall and not many options for conventional war it could be that the nuke card gets played before anybody can come to their senses.
He already played the nuke card in Crimea, and there he was only facing the Ukrainian army, which is 10x smaller and weaker than Russia's. If he had to actually face the US and NATO....? I hope he at least understands the MAD concept from his KGB training classes

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Asked if Russia was prepared to bring its nuclear weapons into play, Putin said: "We were ready to do it. I talked with colleagues and told them that this (Crimea) is our historic territory, Russian people live there, they are in danger, we cannot leave them.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/16/eu...rimea-nuclear/
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Old 18.03.2015, 12:14
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Actually come to think about it, it could be potentially more dangerous for Russia/Putin not to have a modern army, be it navy, air force or ground troops.
With his back to the wall and not many options for conventional war it could be that the nuke card gets played before anybody can come to their senses.
True but they still have to deliver the nuke. I do not see the West allowing a Bear bomber anywhere near. The Soviet era rockets are probaby rustier than their ships.

I assume their submarines are in good shape and carry nukes; they just have to hope the captains follow orders
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Old 18.03.2015, 12:40
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Possibly not so bad after all
Aaa.... wait a cotton-picking minute...

  • The first picture looks like Kuznetzov which is the only AC in service, but the number seems wrong as the Kuznetzov never run with id 069? It did use 063. Maybe the russians like publishing pictures with fake numbers to make it look like they have more than one AC
  • The second picture is British HMS Defender
  • The third picture is indeed the Moskva cruiser, built 1983 of late 60's design
  • The fourth picture is Australian HMAS Perth (FFH 157)
So marton's argument still stands I think...
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  #51  
Old 18.03.2015, 12:47
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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The "gossip" was fun, but the real learned lesson during Putin's absence was that the power in Russia is central around one man, who reports to nobody except himself. So it's no so much a return to Soviet times, but more a return to Czarist times.

Ivan the Terrible did similar "disappearance", but then he ruined the country with his attempt to weaken the existing aristocracy. Did Putin want to know who his real enemy is? :-)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible
Some historians trace the Russian way of governance by secret police to the same guy.
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  #52  
Old 18.03.2015, 13:04
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Oh and the carrier is from 1978 and is now called the INS Vikramaditya after being sold to India in '04.
Some interesting insights here from Reutershttp://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/27/russias-navy-more-rust-than-ready/
Interesting that Russia failed to take over the Ukraine shipyard that is the sole supplier of some major components for their naval ships.
Of course Ukraine no longer exports arms to Russia.
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  #53  
Old 18.03.2015, 13:25
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

As a matter of complete and pure coincidence, Moscow is erecting a 25 meter high statue to honor Vladimir the Great:

"Moscow will erect a 25-meter statue of Vladimir the Great, the ruler of Kievan Rus who converted his nation to Christianity, as Russia and Ukraine vie to claim the Orthodox saint on the 1000th anniversary of his death.
Standing on Vorobyovy Gory overlooking Moscow city center, the giant figure of Vladimir could be unveiled on National Unity Day, a Russian national holiday on Nov. 4, the city's Moskva news agency reported, citing a city official. Approved by the Moscow city legislature last week, the state-funded monument will cost 150 million rubles ($2.5 million).
The decision comes as Moscow swells with patriotism amid a standoff with the West over Ukraine, where Russia has backed separatists fighting in the country's east.
"Saint Vladimir is a great defender of our country and our capital. … The monument will not be seen as a representation of a specific historical figure but as a sort of spiritual talisman," Yevgeny Gerasimov, head of the culture and mass media committee in the Moscow city legislature, was quoted by Moskva as saying.
The statue, which will be the height of an eight-story building, will depict Vladimir with a sword strapped to his thigh and holding a cross above his head."


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busine...ow/516827.html
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  #54  
Old 18.03.2015, 13:26
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Lol Wollie you are funny.
The number 121 was launched in 1979!! And is the Black Sea flagship - imagine how old the rest of the fleet is.
157 was sold to China 10 years ago.

The photos must be 30 years old
I think, not the age is the problem, but lack of maintenance and organisation, but Putin vowed to get the standards of the USSR sorry I mean Russian Navy UP
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  #55  
Old 18.03.2015, 13:34
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

On the topic of Ukraine, I was recently reading that Harold Godwinson, the last Anglo Saxon king of England- who was killed at the Battle of Hastings, actually spent his youth living in Kiev.

At first it struck me as stange that a man with possibly Ukrainian culture should have become king of England. Then I remembered that Kiev was actually founded by the Vikings and so would at the time most probably have been a city of Scandinavian culture.

So it's time we got our act together and explained to both the Russians and Ukrainians that its actually our country and that they should both go home.
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:04
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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He already played the nuke card in Crimea, and there he was only facing the Ukrainian army, which is 10x smaller and weaker than Russia's. If he had to actually face the US and NATO....? I hope he at least understands the MAD concept from his KGB training classes


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/16/eu...rimea-nuclear/
No, the nuke card as in "I learned a new word today. Atom bomb. It was like a white light in the sky. Like God taking a photograph…"
With all the new development and refinements MAD has become obsolete, the fear is no longer apparent, precision strategic nukes instead of… well.. Armageddon nukes makes atomic war feasible, remember, thousands of nukes have been test popped since 1945, as much as in a hot war and we are still here, military thinking would therefor reason that a nuke fight may just be winnable after all.
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:11
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

What is now known as Ukraine, was Russia 120 years ago.

Just saying.

Tom

P.S. Same can be said for much of Poland. I know, as that is where my wife's ancestors came here from as political refugees back then.
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:19
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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True but they still have to deliver the nuke. I do not see the West allowing a Bear bomber anywhere near. The Soviet era rockets are probaby rustier than their ships.

I assume their submarines are in good shape and carry nukes; they just have to hope the captains follow orders
I would not want to take a bet on that, anyway rockets are not the only way to deliver a nuke, a container full of Smirnoff with a little "extra" packing, heck you could simply get UPS to deliver one to anyplace you want glazed for that matter.
Wouldn't be the first time…
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Spätestens ab 1967 stand den sowjetischen Truppen eine Sidewinder zur Verfügung, die der Krefelder Architekt Manfred Ramminger mit Hilfe seines Fahrers und des Starfighter-Piloten Wolf-Diethard Knoppe am 22. Oktober 1967 auf dem westdeutschen Fliegerhorst Neuburg entwendet hatte. Die Rakete wurde später – in unverdächtige Teile zerlegt – über den Flughafen Düsseldorf nach Moskau geschafft. Das Trio wurde ein Jahr später verhaftet.
They nicked a sidewinder missile, disguised it as plumbing supplies and sent it to the UdSSR with the German Bundespost, I wonder how many stamps it took..
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Old 18.03.2015, 23:42
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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I think, not the age is the problem, but lack of maintenance and organisation, but Putin vowed to get the standards of the USSR sorry I mean Russian Navy UP
Best practice is to scrap warships when they reach the age of 30. Warships need to be fast, modern and reliable.

All the large Russian warships were originally Soviet ships. When they go to sea they have to include a tug boat in the convoy to ensure they get home again.

Russia would like to build new aircraft carriers but currently do not have a shipyard large enough so they would have to build a new shipyard first
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Old 19.03.2015, 00:38
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Re: Putin's whereabouts - Ticino?

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Ivan the Terrible did similar "disappearance", but then he ruined the country with his attempt to weaken the existing aristocracy. Did Putin want to know who his real enemy is? :-)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible
Some historians trace the Russian way of governance by secret police to the same guy.

I expect Mr Putin to be known later as VLADIMIR the FORMIDABLE
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