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  #261  
Old 25.04.2015, 17:11
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Laypeople enjoy Berlin Walls :-)
I was just enjoying all the murals and graffiti on it, admiring the Berliners for all their creative energy.
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  #262  
Old 25.04.2015, 18:34
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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We share the same planet. You are lucky you were born here but it doesn't entitle you to anything more than them.

You don't want them here? Well, find a solution to keep them there then because guess what butterscotch, they won't stop coming as long as life is a shithole there.
They sure seem to be bringing their shithole with them to the burning suburbs of Paris and Marseille...

Last edited by parnell; 25.04.2015 at 19:00.
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  #263  
Old 26.04.2015, 09:47
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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I do think that the world needs to react to the plight of all these desperate people trying to reach Europe and England. It's so tragic to see people lose there lives in a desperate attempt to leave their countries. Any serious ideas/thoughts on how the world can address this situation before another boat sinks killing hundreds.


It is NOT "Europe AND England" but simply EUROPE. As ouf of the perspective of People in the Arab World, in Turkey, in Asia and in Africa, Britain is a very important PART of Europe




************************************************** **********************************************


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They sure seem to be bringing their shithole with them to the burning suburbs of Paris and Marseille...

"burning Suburbs" ? No Suburbs in Paris, Lyon or Marseille were burning. there WERE burning cars and some civil unrest. Nobody brought such behaviours to France, as it was a totally European Thing, exported to other areas of the world in recent decades. What many emigrants brought with them as good cuisine and a lot of culture.
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  #264  
Old 26.04.2015, 10:16
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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We share the same planet. You are lucky you were born here but it doesn't entitle you to anything more than them.
Err, yes, it does. Legally speaking at least, even if not morally.
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  #265  
Old 26.04.2015, 11:25
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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"burning Suburbs" ? No Suburbs in Paris, Lyon or Marseille were burning. there WERE burning cars and some civil unrest. Nobody brought such behaviours to France, as it was a totally European Thing, exported to other areas of the world in recent decades. What many emigrants brought with them as good cuisine and a lot of culture.
.
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  #266  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:01
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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They sure seem to be bringing their shithole with them to the burning suburbs of Paris and Marseille...
Foxnews expert

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  #267  
Old 26.04.2015, 14:18
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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I even doubt that she believes most of her own bile.
I am sure she does:-)

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  #268  
Old 26.04.2015, 14:54
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

I have not read all that has gone before. But I remember a conference I attended in the 1990s in Athens about refugees from the wars in a collapsing Yugoslavia. And I have professionally read Eurostat and other analyses about assimilation and integration of refugees.

I can only make a couple of observations that prove nothing but maybe provide food for thought.

Muslim theology (like that of Jehovah's Witnesses) holds that sovereignty belongs to God. Muslims are less likely to naturalise (and intermarry) than Christians from the same countries (thinking of the Middle East). This is cultural: Christians, Muslims and Jews from the region are genetically identical.

Why one generation can be law-abiding and the next hive off to serve ISIS I leave to others to think about. Switzerland has at least two well-known Arab scholars, Sami Aldeeb (Christian) and Tariq Ramadan (Muslim). They know far more than I do.

By and large, immigration to Europe from Asia and Africa has been from specific towns and regions. Recent seaborne asylum seekers (remember the Vietnamese boat people anybody?) have financial support. From families or perhaps from African villages expecting to receive remittances later. Should one distinguish between political and economic migrants? The Refugee Conventions (a response to Nazi and Stalinist oppression and Holocaust guilt, but unchangeable since 1960 because so many subsequent UN members have no interest in making the situation easier for the receiving countries) do distinguish between them.

The above is just to get the thread on track. Switzerland was never a colonialist country, should it feel any guilt now? It was indeed, when my ancestors left, a country of emigration and my ancestors did well in America whereas they would have remained peasants, perhaps, back in the Grisons.
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  #269  
Old 27.04.2015, 14:38
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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My home is too small but not my country.

We get all offended about animal abuse but to send back an other human being in a country where dead is better than being in there is ok?

No one cross by boat thinking it will be easy peasy. They know the risks but they are ready to take those risks because life at home is worst.

So here is two choice:

Improve their life at home or make space for them here. If they can't make it by sea, they will find an other way.

Resolve the problem at the roots, not try to patch the consequences of those problems.
This post sticks in my mind whenever I read about those refugees.

"We should take them into our homes" is answered by "My home is too small" - is just SO classic!

When words say so much, and deeds say so little.

"A man of words and not of deeds, is like a garden full of weeds" - from a poster that hung in my grand-dads office.

..............................
By the way, last week I just happened to tune in to TV when a documentary came on about a German guy with his camera-man who went to Tunisia and booked themselves onto one of those refugee boats.

The area they sailed from was a ruined city full of dirt and crumbling buildings, but no bombs, no violence, just lots and lots of men sitting around "waiting".
Fishing boats litter the beaches - No-one fishes anymore, everyone wants to go to Europe where " a good life is provided".
And the folk manage to find between 1,000 and 8,000 Euros for the trip?

I found it interesting, and enlightening - in a macabre sort-of way.
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  #270  
Old 27.04.2015, 14:50
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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My home is too small but not my country.
Yes, but they are trying to get to Italy, not Canada, so what's your point?

Tom
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  #271  
Old 27.04.2015, 14:54
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

Yesterday in the UK Sunday Times was a long article about a Syrian surgeon living in Syria. He is very rich and wanted to leave Syria legally, before he & his family were all killed, but there was no country willing to take him. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1548908.ece

He then travelled to Libya & paid the Libyan smugglers to take himself and his family to Malta. The boat was destroyed by Libyan militia, and only he survived.

My thoughts are, why didn't any country want a skilled surgeon? His thoughts are, why did my family have to die?
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  #272  
Old 27.04.2015, 14:57
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

If he was very rich, why didn't he just buy his own boat?

And how did he get from Syria to Libya?

Tom
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  #273  
Old 27.04.2015, 14:58
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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My thoughts are, why didn't any country want a skilled surgeon?
Why is a surgeon and his family more entitled to sanctuary than any other Syrian?
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  #274  
Old 27.04.2015, 15:17
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Yes, but they are trying to get to Italy, not Canada, so what's your point?

Tom
Isn't socialism all about giving away other people's stuff.

Or as Maggie Thatcher so aptly said, the problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money.
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  #275  
Old 27.04.2015, 15:19
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Isn't socialism all about giving away other people's stuff.

Or as Maggie Thatcher so aptly said, the problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money.
That and it's got SUCH a good track record in Europe...
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  #276  
Old 27.04.2015, 15:19
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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didn't any country want a skilled surgeon? His thoughts are, why did my family have to die?
was he asking himself, or some imaginary colonizer?

Investigative Journalist report these refugees are often college educated or skilled, from somewhat middle class families, and come from places were there are no conflicts. They muster up a couple of thousand dollars for this trip, a yearly salary for many in Africa. Apart from problems it may cause in Europe, this even represents a brain drain where these capable people are needed more.

An Example of why you can't trust mainstream media.
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  #277  
Old 27.04.2015, 15:22
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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was he asking himself, or some imaginary colonizer?
I can just imagine the guy, sitting on a sinking boat and shouting "don't save all these common folks. Save me instead. I'm a skilled surgeon you know".
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  #278  
Old 27.04.2015, 17:36
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Yesterday in the UK Sunday Times was a long article about a Syrian surgeon living in Syria. He is very rich and wanted to leave Syria legally, before he & his family were all killed, but there was no country willing to take him. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1548908.ece

He then travelled to Libya & paid the Libyan smugglers to take himself and his family to Malta. The boat was destroyed by Libyan militia, and only he survived.

My thoughts are, why didn't any country want a skilled surgeon? His thoughts are, why did my family have to die?
This man lost his family and our usual EFers can't even feel a hint of compassion.
I don't know why no-one wanted them, it's absurd.

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I can just imagine the guy, sitting on a sinking boat and shouting "don't save all these common folks. Save me instead. I'm a skilled surgeon you know".
I don't want to groan you but really?

Last edited by greenmount; 27.04.2015 at 17:50.
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  #279  
Old 27.04.2015, 18:01
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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I don't want to groan you but really?
That explains my groan. Thanks.

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  #280  
Old 27.04.2015, 18:43
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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This man lost his family and our usual EFers can't even feel a hint of compassion.
True compassion, or the kind of compassion peddled by left wing propagandist? I find the left-wing notion of compassion much more cynical, because they insidiously exploit it to advance their agenda. Then change the words around, problem there, hocus locus, problem vanish into thin air! Bah! Nice try.
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