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  #281  
Old 27.04.2015, 18:46
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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True compassion, or the kind of compassion peddled by left wing propagandist? I find the left-wing notion of compassion much more cynical, because they insidiously exploit it to advance their agenda. Then change the words around, problem there, hocus locus, problem vanish into thin air! Bah! Nice try.
True compassion as a human being, I don't know why do you push the left-wing thingy...it's primary school, really. I'd love to say nice try but it's just childish.
I'm not "left-wing" as I never voted with any left-wing party. All clear now?
Reeeealy Posh. Grow up and stop making assumptions.
I understand you still feel a cold war kind of thingy....it's just pathetic you know.
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  #282  
Old 27.04.2015, 19:42
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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True compassion, or the kind of compassion peddled by left wing propagandist? I find the left-wing notion of compassion much more cynical, because they insidiously exploit it to advance their agenda.
And I find the constant cynicism of the right to be equally tiring. Constantly manipulating the story to advance their own agenda i.e. everyone fleeing persecution is a fraud and anyone on social welfare is a work-shy opportunist living in a mansion and wearing designer clothes. You could have 99 worthy cases, but they will choose to amplify the one bad egg as being representative of the group.
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  #283  
Old 27.04.2015, 20:13
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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And I find the constant cynicism of the right to be equally tiring. Constantly manipulating the story to advance their own agenda i.e. everyone fleeing persecution is a fraud and anyone on social welfare is a work-shy opportunist living in a mansion and wearing designer clothes. You could have 99 worthy cases, but they will choose to amplify the one bad egg as being representative of the group.
I don't see why this has to be a left wing / right wing thing.

You can be for something that's right for all the wrong reasons. It happens to both the left and the right.

But if you point at the flaw in somebody's logic then they go into the humanity argument thing.

So for some people, if something is right then any argument in favor is by consequence right. All I'm trying to do is open people's eyes two the fact that no.
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  #284  
Old 27.04.2015, 20:50
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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And I find the constant cynicism of the right to be equally tiring. Constantly manipulating the story to advance their own agenda i.e. everyone fleeing persecution is a fraud and anyone on social welfare is a work-shy opportunist living in a mansion and wearing designer clothes. You could have 99 worthy cases, but they will choose to amplify the one bad egg as being representative of the group.
A certain kind of...right.
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  #285  
Old 28.04.2015, 01:56
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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<huge image removed>

The pattern was already THERE, right in France. And again, the Suburbs were NOT burning, only some cars

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.05.2015 at 20:33. Reason: removed huge image from quote
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  #286  
Old 28.04.2015, 02:08
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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If he was very rich, why didn't he just buy his own boat?

And how did he get from Syria to Libya?

Tom






Rich in Syria but not outside his country as the Syrian Pound is not exactly high in demand


And there are quite many passenger ships between Syria/Lebanon and Egypt/Libya -- MEA Middle East Airlines

and EgyptAir ( ex United Arab Airlines)



used to be the largest Arab Airlines in 1970 but now just are shadows of what they used to be
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  #287  
Old 28.04.2015, 11:58
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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True compassion, or the kind of compassion peddled by left wing propagandist?
Whichever suits you. Either would have stopped the sarcasm (and the sentiment behind such sarcasm) about the tragedy of that person.

Regards
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  #288  
Old 28.04.2015, 12:19
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

You guys still here? Looks like the tragedy is more or less resolved and the topic of discussion has shifted to airplanes and birds?

Side note to sudeepta: I actually like some of what you have to say but the way that you end your posts with the double "regards" makes me wince and forget what bits of wisdom may have been imparted. You may want to rethink that. Or not.

Regards
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Regards
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  #289  
Old 28.04.2015, 12:36
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

I can’t speak for the “right”, whoever might be included in that. For me, compassion is a very personal thing. It really should not be confused with sentimentality, which is quite often manipulated in public discourses like this. The woman who made the cockroach comment, and others who who make comments seemingly indifferent and sarcastic comments were not really preaching hatred. They are counter-reacting directly against these manipulations of sentiments.

I can relate to this counter-reaction, because I find it offensive to try to manipulate people into compassion. I think it violates the sanctity of a person’s conscience, and oftentimes for all the wrong reasons, and the wrong calls to action. This topic is an example of it.

Compassion is not a monopoly of the left. Perhaps sentimentality is. What bothers me about it is that those who stir it up don’t really do anything about it themselves. In fact, their intent is to get someone else to do something about it for them. Its like someone who insists on going out to dinner with you, but in the end expects you to foot the bill because they didn’t bring any money. It is kind of irresponsible, and sometimes downright deceitful.

I doubt you will hear much about conservative compassion. I assure you it does occur. You wouldn’t have any idea of some of things conservatives do for the issues they care about, would you?. Its a stereotype to cast the conservatives as scrooges. A classic example is a particularly famous “conservative” who is often vilified as the devil-incarnate himself. Yet he is credited with having saved millions of African lives. He’s taken on such heroic proportions in Africa, that its causing some consternation for Obama. Obama is not able to top the accomplish. I’m talking about George W. Bush and the impact he has had in combatting AIDS and malaria in Africa. I doubt it was written about in the Guardian.

So the whining about this refugee situation is quite ambiguous. What exactly do they propose to do other than whine? Cast guilt here and there for it? Try to weasel out some concessions? Or perhaps it does not matter at all, because whatever it is, those who are whining are not likely to take responsibility for what it costs to implement, nor responsibility for the repercussions of its impact. They just want access to what does not belong to them, no? Why don’t they just use their own?

Last edited by Phos; 28.04.2015 at 12:53.
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  #290  
Old 28.04.2015, 13:04
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Side note to sudeepta: I actually like some of what you have to say but the way that you end your posts with the double "regards" makes me wince and forget what bits of wisdom may have been imparted. You may want to rethink that. Or not.

Regards
-------------
Regards
Patxi
. Love you for pointing that. It seems that my signature doesn't show up on my laptop and that prompts me to put up the (first) 'regards'. I still don't know what the reason is (browser related , device related or what).
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  #291  
Old 28.04.2015, 21:08
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

Perhaps we should be asking why the rest of the world sees this as a continuing tradegy while Africa itself doesn't seem to see it at all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32480410

Why IS Africa silent?
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  #292  
Old 04.05.2015, 20:09
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Oh, so maybe they come for the beer and sausages. But let's not get silly. They come because they get a free apartment, an allowance, and maybe petition to bring 4 wives and a dozen children once they get legitimate residence status. Social service for each and every one of them would afford a nice cushy lifestyle without lifting a finger to work.
Just to ressurect this thread it would seem that Phos is correct in his assessment.
Today┤s Times of Malta has run an article about refugees refusing to be rescued by the Maltese coast guard.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...l-boats.566735
I find the comments are as to be expected.
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  #293  
Old 04.05.2015, 20:36
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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But....but....

We share the same planet!

Well this thread certainly shows who is who Nil's comment may well be na´ve- and the situation extremely difficult and complex- and few of us know what the answers are. But comments on shooting people and the boats, sharks and thos who find it ... hilarious- as above- just beggars belief and makes me sick.
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  #294  
Old 04.05.2015, 21:27
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

Laser guided sharks.... whatever next... that's sick. Just think of the innocent sharks.
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  #295  
Old 05.05.2015, 04:53
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

Two very important aspects are forgotten in Europe


A) Most who try to get to Europe DO SURVIVE
B) Most who survive are fairly successful in get some sort of job and making money (lots of)
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  #296  
Old 05.05.2015, 12:55
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Just to ressurect this thread it would seem that Phos is correct in his assessment.
Today┤s Times of Malta has run an article about refugees refusing to be rescued by the Maltese coast guard.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...l-boats.566735
I find the comments are as to be expected.

Yet they "rescued" 7,000 just over the weekend. Wow! So if the chance of drowning does not discourage them from trying, I doubt think shooting at them will either.


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Old 05.05.2015, 14:36
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Perhaps we should be asking why the rest of the world sees this as a continuing tradegy while Africa itself doesn't seem to see it at all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32480410

Why IS Africa silent?
Because of comments like this one :

Quote:
16. Posted by Asmera
on
29 Apr 2015 07:11
I am an Eritrean, and I don't justify the current govt. in short he does not trust his people. But the spirit of wanting to leave Eritrea is not because of the govt. it's becoz of jealousy, fame, money and prestige. Ask any Eritrean in the West countries, all they want to do is send money back home and build houses and support the current govt. And back home its all about look, what s/he has done.
So those countries are receiving massive amounts of hard currency from the emigrants.

Ultimately Europe has to take a hard stand on this - as slammer's article points out these are not asylum seekers , these are asylum shoppers...
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  #298  
Old 05.05.2015, 14:46
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

Its that codependent relationship between a patient and their enabler with the disability or drug addiction called "Colonialism".
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  #299  
Old 05.05.2015, 16:20
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

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Because of comments like this one :



So those countries are receiving massive amounts of hard currency from the emigrants.

Ultimately Europe has to take a hard stand on this - as slammer's article points out these are not asylum seekers , these are asylum shoppers...
Or is it actually because they're forced, even blackmailed, to do so by the Eritrean government?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...ed-over-scheme

http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...ra-tax-embassy

http://www.ethioembnairobi.org/welco...ite-sanctions/

From the last link:

"In the past, the UN Monitoring Group on Somalia and Eritrea documented repeated cases of forced extortion of the 2% Diaspora Tax through various diplomatic missions of Eritrea around the world. It provided evidence that the payments were often made under duress and intimidation, with threats of the denial of such services as passport renewal, refusal of entry visas to Eritrea to those who are Eritrean origin, refusal to visit family members, or denials of opportunity to conduct any form of business in Eritrea. Eritreans living in various parts of the world have held numerous demonstrations demanding the cessation of this illegal tax collection."
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Old 05.05.2015, 17:23
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Re: The repeating tragedy of immigrants dying to reach Europe.

What is unfortunate is that there are people who are truly in life threatening situations that really need to be rescued, particularly people fleeing massacres in other places like Syria and Iraq. This wave of refugees on the Mediterranean really convolutes the problem and diminishes their chances.
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