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Old 24.04.2015, 13:09
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100 Years Ago

although I am as white-bread American as they come, I was born and raised in a community having perhaps the largest Armenian, Greek and Assyrian/Chaldean populations in the US. so, though the events may be 100 years old and my relation to them only tangential, it seems important to me to remember on this day that somewhere between 2 and 3 million Christians of Armenian, Greek and Assyrian/Chaldean descent were exterminated during the course of the 20th Century's first, and unfortunately most forgotten and/or most refuted, genocide.

to President Obama, I ask:

"Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier?"

http://armeniangenocide100.org/en/
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Old 24.04.2015, 13:25
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Re: 100 Years Ago

Joachim Gauch on the news as a screw you Erdoğan
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gau...enien-101.html
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Old 24.04.2015, 14:16
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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.... it seems important to me to remember on this day that somewhere between 2 and 3 million Christians of Armenian, Greek and Assyrian/Chaldean descent were exterminated...
Interesting - Swiss and German news refer to up to 1.5 million having been killed... (not that this makes it less evil).
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Old 24.04.2015, 14:28
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Re: 100 Years Ago

The EU and several countries recognize the genocide but notably not the US and the UK for fear of upsetting their major ally Turkey.

The Armenians say 1.5m were massacred, the number in itself is not the issue, but it is after the Namibian genocide the second major genocide of the C20.

I saw this on the BBC, a movie based on the testimony of Iranian witness, and it is very moving:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32430246
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Old 24.04.2015, 15:41
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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Interesting - Swiss and German news refer to up to 1.5 million having been killed... (not that this makes it less evil).
that 1.5 million figure does not include Greeks, Assyrians and others who were also murdered as part of the same program of extermination.
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Old 24.04.2015, 16:17
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Re: 100 Years Ago

So what is the reticence for calling it for what it was? It was a hundred years ago, committed by an empire that no longer exists. Hopefully, its not for leeway to be able to do it again, just in case. But by adamantly denying it as they do, isn't Turkey in effect actually still identifying with it?

Or is Turkey basically saying it never happened?
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Old 24.04.2015, 16:28
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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So what is the reticence for calling it for what it was? It was a hundred years ago, committed by an empire that no longer exists. Hopefully, its not for leeway to be able to do it again, just in case. But by adamantly denying it as they do, isn't Turkey in effect actually still identifying with it?

Or is Turkey basically saying it never happened?
imho both but of course I don't know. Plus they may be worried about reparations.

A good point about the "empire that no longer exists", but I suppose the simplest parallel is Germany after the second world war: a different government than the Hitler government during WW2 but one that recognized the atrocities committed under the previous rulers
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Old 24.04.2015, 16:31
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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So what is the reticence for calling it for what it was? It was a hundred years ago, committed by an empire that no longer exists. Hopefully, its not for leeway to be able to do it again, just in case. But by adamantly denying it as they do, isn't Turkey in effect actually still identifying with it?

Or is Turkey basically saying it never happened?
Turkey should apologise and move on.
It will never be forgotten and repeated denials just keeps the pot boiling......
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Old 24.04.2015, 16:47
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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So what is the reticence for calling it for what it was? It was a hundred years ago, committed by an empire that no longer exists. Hopefully, its not for leeway to be able to do it again, just in case. But by adamantly denying it as they do, isn't Turkey in effect actually still identifying with it?

Or is Turkey basically saying it never happened?
I was at a business dinner a year or two ago in Istanbul, which included several Turkish officials. another American at the table (a dumber American than me) asked one of the officials, "how many Christians are there living in Turkey, on a percentage basis?"

"none."

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Old 24.04.2015, 19:48
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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Joachim Gauch on the news as a screw you Erdoğan
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gau...enien-101.html
I wish I could understand German. Anything that says screw Erdogan is music to my hears..

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that 1.5 million figure does not include Greeks, Assyrians and others who were also murdered as part of the same program of extermination.
Including Kurds.

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So what is the reticence for calling it for what it was? It was a hundred years ago, committed by an empire that no longer exists. Hopefully, its not for leeway to be able to do it again, just in case. But by adamantly denying it as they do, isn't Turkey in effect actually still identifying with it?

Or is Turkey basically saying it never happened?
It was under the Ottoman Empire but at the end of it and not committed but the ottoman empire but the Young Turks which became Ataturk's party and the party still on power today.
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Old 24.04.2015, 19:49
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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I was at a business dinner a year or two ago in Istanbul, which included several Turkish officials. another American at the table (a dumber American than me) asked one of the officials, "how many Christians are there living in Turkey, on a percentage basis?"

"none."

Apparently he didn't visit Besiktas where an Armenian church stand close to where I used to live.
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Old 24.04.2015, 20:33
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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Including Kurds.

Many Kurdish organizations apologized for massacring Armenians and Syrians together with Turks.
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Old 24.04.2015, 20:45
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Re: 100 Years Ago

Yep, the Kurds helped the Ottomans massacre the Armenians but to their credit they have apologised and recognise the genocide
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Old 24.04.2015, 21:05
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Re: 100 Years Ago

The recent and broad usage of word "genocide" for the crimes perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against Armenians is the strong signal that Turkey is not considered anymore as a reliable ally for Europe and the US. In the past, Turkey used to leverage its strategic role to lobby against the armenian diaspora.
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Old 24.04.2015, 21:06
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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Many Kurdish organizations apologized for massacring Armenians and Syrians together with Turks.
Yes, they did.

Armenians had a say to the Kurds: they got us for breakfast, they will have you for lunch.

And they did.
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Old 24.04.2015, 21:11
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Re: 100 Years Ago

I remember when I was a child, one of my best friends at school told me that he comes from a country that does not exist anymore and whose population has been killed and forced to leave. We were only 8 years old and he had a strong sense of his armenian identity and culture. Still impresses me now.
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Old 24.04.2015, 21:16
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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I wish I could understand German. Anything that says screw Erdogan is music to my hears..
Joachim Gauck is the German president, not a president as in POTUS but the head of state and the office that represents Germany to the world, the president also has the power to overrule the Bundeskanzler and the Bundestag if necessary and no law can be passed without the signature of the president.
So when Herr Gauck calls what happened to the Armenians a Genocide, or in German "Völkermord" it carries a lot of weight. He actually managed to word around the current government in Ankara by blaming the Ottoman empire and as a German he also found a way to self-blame the Germans again but all the same, for Germany it is now official, it was genocide.
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Old 24.04.2015, 22:16
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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I remember when I was a child, one of my best friends at school told me that he comes from a country that does not exist anymore and whose population has been killed and forced to leave. We were only 8 years old and he had a strong sense of his armenian identity and culture. Still impresses me now.
It created a diaspora that caused them to settle in communities where they've clung closer together. A large contingency of them settled in a suburb of my city, Glendale. I found them to be wonderful and beautiful too. The friends I made were real. In many ways, they've started to resemble the Jews. In fact, I've attended "Diaspora" parties comprised mostly of Armenians, Jews and Iranians who left Iran. It was great to see them bond together with a common soul.

You might have heard some of them. You know Kim, right? "Yeezus" Kanye's wife? Typical southern Californian Armenian, without the realty-TV But the shopping and bling is typical.

They've failed in their attempt to kill off the Armenians. That nation is still strong.
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Old 24.04.2015, 22:41
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Re: 100 Years Ago

I was on a short business trip in Singapore some years ago when discovered, while reading in the hotel room, there was an Armenian church and a street named Armenia in Singapore. Apparently, the church was built by donations from 12 Armenians who lived there and prospered. I rushed to check out the street and the church. Brought goosebumps to know how far they had come.

Ps - it humbles me to read the posts. I'm an Armenian - not from Armenia but the great granddaughter of one of those who walked and survived the desert...
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Old 25.04.2015, 09:41
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Re: 100 Years Ago

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although I am as white-bread American as they come, I was born and raised in a community having perhaps the largest Armenian, Greek and Assyrian/Chaldean populations in the US. so, though the events may be 100 years old and my relation to them only tangential, it seems important to me to remember on this day that somewhere between 2 and 3 million Christians of Armenian, Greek and Assyrian/Chaldean descent were exterminated during the course of the 20th Century's first, and unfortunately most forgotten and/or most refuted, genocide.

to President Obama, I ask:

"Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier?"

http://armeniangenocide100.org/en/

The mass murder was the over-reaction (on about three assassinations) of a dying empire, which for centuries was relatively liberal and tolerant. It was the time when the Turkish Empire with mass executions in Damascus and Beirut (Place des Martyrs) tried to Keep the Mashreek under control


The real question is "Warum redet man wieder .... " as nobody talks about the fate of the Tscherkessz. Most of them were rescued by the Brits out of the Crimea and transferred to Trans-Jordan (Amman, the ancient Philadelphia). Nobody talks about what happened with the Tartars, both in the traditional Tartar regions and on the Crimea


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So what is the reticence for calling it for what it was? It was a hundred years ago, committed by an empire that no longer exists. Hopefully, its not for leeway to be able to do it again, just in case. But by adamantly denying it as they do, isn't Turkey in effect actually still identifying with it?

Or is Turkey basically saying it never happened?

The Turkish Position simply is that what happened was NOT a program but the result of the chaos in the Empire after about 1915. Americans may speak about COLLATERAL DAMAGE




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I wish I could understand German. Anything that says screw Erdogan is music to my hears..



Including Kurds.



It was under the Ottoman Empire but at the end of it and not committed but the ottoman empire but the Young Turks which became Ataturk's party and the party still on power today.

The "Young Turks" were the Triumvirate of Enver Pasha, Djemal Pasha and Talaat Pasha for whom Mustafa Kemal had no sympathies. And the Triumvirate WAS the defacto leadership of the dying Empire, whenever the Sultan-Kaliph still was the non-executive head-of-state. Turkey was taken over by Ismet Pasha in 1938 who then established the CHK Cumhüriet Halk Partisi. The Party in power now is exactly the OPPOSITION to the CHK and opposes Kemalism




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Last edited by Wollishofener; 25.04.2015 at 11:23.
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