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  #41  
Old 26.06.2015, 15:55
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

Dear male faculty, ERC, Royal Society, Nature & Science, politicians etc: instead of axing one individual and spending countless blog and forum entries on debating his awful ways, how about:

- giving us women more time and research money,
- allowing us to start our labs later,
- giving us more money to pay for the babysitter that has to pick up our kids every single day because of seminars ending after school does,
- giving us designated page numbers in high profile journals,
- making all collaboration discussions part of the work day instead of having them over a beer at the local pub that we cannot join because the babysitter eventually wants to leave,
- giving us keynotes and other slots at conferences,
- making sure that hiring, grant review and other panels contain at least SOME women
- stop talking to our male postdoc instead of us when visiting our labs
- stop interrupting us at conversations (and thinking "bitch" when we call you out on it)...

[i could go on, but maybe I should do some more research instead as I have to be twice as productive as my male peers to be seen as equally competent]
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  #42  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:01
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Anyway, taking a strong meme and posting something funny isn't the same thing - I'd agree if they were just adding more attacks on the individual to the noise.
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Next he made a case that science might work better if we separated researchers into single-sex laboratories.
Nothing new here. You will find a lot about this in schooling, sports and other activities as well. Remeber, he is British where all boys and all girls schools are common. Also, you will find a lot of cases were a man/woman in an all female/male environment had it hard and could not achieve it best because the chemistry was not working.

But in the end diversification will win as anything is too narrow minded (double meaning intended).
Just do not try to achieve it with affirmative actions at a very late stage. Dear parents look that your girl(s) choose a career in science and engineering.
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  #43  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:01
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Very good! now using the hashtag #DistractinglySexy we have a good list of individuals attempting science who lack the skills to properly undertake indepth investigations and reading/comprehension of claims.
I don't understand what you mean...
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  #44  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:04
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Actually no - having done the indepth investigation it appears he was pretty much being sexist, possibly unconciously given how badly he has handled the whole thing. This seems to be a pretty good summary:



Anyway, taking a strong meme and posting something funny isn't the same thing - I'd agree if they were just adding more attacks on the individual to the noise.

If a single 'thedailybeast' article from 10 days ago is a good summary, I guess I have different criteria of what an indepth investigations entails.
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  #45  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:10
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

Of course they do!

Physicist, Dr Fabiola Gianotti, will become CERN's first female DG as of lst January 2016.
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  #46  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:17
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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If a single 'thedailybeast' article from 10 days ago is a good summary, I guess I have different criteria of what an indepth investigations entails.
Which thus far seems to be exclusively the content of this thread, unless you care to share some real content?
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  #47  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:19
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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I don't understand what you mean...

It was meant to be a light heated comment suggesting that those who were quick to judge him as making a blatant sexiest comment, did not take the time to investigate the claims and published results without proper understanding and knowledge on the topic.

Generally people who've abandoned the scientific method---don't need them in my lab.
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  #48  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:26
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Which thus far seems to be exclusively the content of this thread, unless you care to share some real content?
Remarks not sexist backed by EU report
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-10341309.html

Support from hundreds of female scientists
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...acked-him.html

Backing from 8 fellow Nobel laureates
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sacked-nobe...reates-1507096

just a few more relevant links found on google.
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  #49  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:27
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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So what you're actually saying is that you're pleased that somebody has lost their career and standing just because he had a little joke that you didn't like that much.

Hmmm.
yes. he's a man and therefore the enemy. it's normal to be pleased that he lost his job for a joke, just as it is normal to be pleased if he had lost his job through a false rape accusation.
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  #50  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:36
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

I assume female scientists are only allowed if they are pretty - and prefer wearing short lab coats and shorter skirts - and often drop their pens.

In fact they don't even need to be real scientists just pretty - prefering to wear short lab coats and shorter skirts - and often drop their pens.

OK, they're to be no less attractive than Bernadette
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  #51  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:41
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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As a female scientist I found it offensive and was happy that he was made to face the consequences of his actions 😁
I'm extremely offended about what you just wrote. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read (today).

This is a public forum.

You should face the consequences of your actions so you really ought to give up whatever it is you do for a living! It's the correct thing to do and you would do it if you had any honour.
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  #52  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:44
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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I assume female scientists are only allowed if they are pretty - and prefer wearing short lab coats and shorter skirts - and often drop their pens.

In fact they don't even need to be real scientists just pretty - prefering to wear short lab coats and shorter skirts - and often drop their pens.
I think you're getting scientists confused with Sepp Blatter who suggested that female football players should wear tighter clothing.

Why wasn't he asked to resign?

Oh, he was...but didn't...
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  #53  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:45
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Remarks not sexist backed by EU report
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-10341309.html

Support from hundreds of female scientists
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...acked-him.html

Backing from 8 fellow Nobel laureates
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sacked-nobe...reates-1507096

just a few more relevant links found on google.
OK - except it isn't apart from the first (which is third hand, I'd already posted the link to the original Times article, which is second hand itself - the actual EU report doesn't seem to be online).

The second is just him claiming he has emails in support, not evidence, and actually the only quote from a female scientist in the article (apart from his wife) is ambiguous at best.

The third one is a character reference, not evidence. If Einstein said 2+2=5 and eight other Nobel laureates said he's always right, would you believe him?

Apart from the EU report the only direct quotes I can find from people actually at the event, including the Korean's themselves, seem to broadly support the original article.

Edit: yes EF, I know Einstein's dead
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  #54  
Old 26.06.2015, 16:51
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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OK, they're to be no less attractive than Bernadette
HOWARD! Bring out the trash, and no Comic-Con for you this year.
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  #55  
Old 26.06.2015, 17:00
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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HOWARD! Bring out the trash, and no Comic-Con for you this year.
Awwww mom - I mean Bernie
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  #56  
Old 26.06.2015, 17:11
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Nothing new here. You will find a lot about this in schooling, sports and other activities as well. Remeber, he is British where all boys and all girls schools are common...
Well. Not exactly common. But not unheard of.
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  #57  
Old 26.06.2015, 17:25
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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As a female scientist I found it offensive and was happy that he was made to face the consequences of his actions ��
Me too. I'm glad he was taken to one side and quietly advised to watch what he says in a press conference. Maybe given a verbal warning if he'd breached any of the university's codes of practice.

That's what happened, right?
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  #58  
Old 26.06.2015, 18:00
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Maybe the comment was taken out of context, but in this modern age it is one that should never have been made.

As a female scientist I found it offensive and was happy that he was made to face the consequences of his actions 😁

Surely we are trying to encourage more females into the Science workplace and stupid comments like this really don't help!
Some people don't agree with you,

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-10333685.html
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  #59  
Old 26.06.2015, 20:39
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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Dear male faculty, ERC, Royal Society, Nature & Science, politicians etc: instead of axing one individual and spending countless blog and forum entries on debating his awful ways, how about:

- giving us women more time and research money,
- allowing us to start our labs later,
- giving us more money to pay for the babysitter that has to pick up our kids every single day because of seminars ending after school does,
- giving us designated page numbers in high profile journals,
- making all collaboration discussions part of the work day instead of having them over a beer at the local pub that we cannot join because the babysitter eventually wants to leave,
- giving us keynotes and other slots at conferences,
- making sure that hiring, grant review and other panels contain at least SOME women
- stop talking to our male postdoc instead of us when visiting our labs
- stop interrupting us at conversations (and thinking "bitch" when we call you out on it)...

[i could go on, but maybe I should do some more research instead as I have to be twice as productive as my male peers to be seen as equally competent]
If women researchers are equal to men, then you don't need all those special considerations. Promoting the idea that women are victims of men and need special treatment does not support equality. If women are considered 'more equal' then men then one can be guaranteed of a massive backlash, one of which already peaks its head out once and awhile.

You quote a 18-year old article that cites some heavily massaged data. Oh yes, let's weight your scientific competence score by your impact factor (!!!!). As if that means anything. Here's a PNAS study from last year that shows on a difficult to fudge measure, hiring for tenure-track, women are doing twice as well as men:

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360.full

If you are struggling as a scientist, it may not be because you are a woman.
Please try to not see everything through the prism of your gender if you want to succeed. There's nothing worse for personal development than a person giving up their own agency so that they can celebrate their victimhood.
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  #60  
Old 26.06.2015, 20:50
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Re: Do women belong in Science?

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I assume female scientists are only allowed if they are pretty - and prefer wearing short lab coats and shorter skirts - and often drop their pens.
Like this?

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