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  #21  
Old 02.07.2015, 17:37
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

Playing Devil's Advocate Dougal - taking your children to a country the Foreign Office advises against travelling to, without proper provision for your child's medical needs (any safe hospitals?), educational needs (any safe schools?) or accomodation (bunking with ISIS probably doesn't count) is abandonment of parental responsibility, and could lead to social services stepping in I would think.
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  #22  
Old 02.07.2015, 17:40
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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Playing Devil's Advocate Dougal - taking your children to a country the Foreign Office advises against travelling to, without proper provision for your child's medical needs (any safe hospitals?), educational needs (any safe schools?) or accomodation (bunking with ISIS probably vdoesn't count) is abandonment of parental responsibility, and could lead to social services stepping in I would think.
Stepping in how? Syria's a long way from Luton.
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  #23  
Old 02.07.2015, 17:47
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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So what are we going to do? Send out a search party? Confiscate the passports of Muslim children "for their own good"?

There is no way to prevent families from going to Syria that doesn't involve a massive infringement of civil liberties. British citizens have a right to travel. They have a right to take their children with them. Where they go is none of the police's or government's business unless they have actually committed a crime and need to be apprehended.
Of course it's difficult to monitor. But in a modern civilised society the State owes a duty of care to children. Palmyra is not Benidorm. You can't just stand back when you know these kids are being sent into a war zone. The difficulty is knowing and judging the situation, and in cases like this civil liberties would be most likely have to be infringed.
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Old 02.07.2015, 17:48
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

It's a bit difficult after the fact of course, and would have been tricky in this case since the flight plan was UK-->Bangladesh-->Turkey then scramble into Syria. It is probably slightly unusual for a British family of 12 to have an open ended flight plan to an airport near the Turkish/Syrian border though, maybe this should have been noted and investigated by Turkish authorities, or questioned on booking.
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  #25  
Old 02.07.2015, 17:51
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

So "something should be done!" but nobody can say what actually could be done, given that people who possess passports can go pretty much where they like.
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  #26  
Old 02.07.2015, 18:04
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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I can't. Last time I looked there weren't any restrictions on where British citizens could take their kids on holiday. That generally isn't how democratic countries work.
Replace this situation with a little girl being "taken on vacation" to Ethiopia, or Sudan, where there are concerns that the trip is for her to get mutilated.

Replace this situation with a little boy taken on vacation, where there are concerns that he may be at the hands of a paedophile ring.

Replace this situation with a young girl taken to her parents' homecountry "on vacation", so she can get married off at the tender age of 15.

I think you'll find that the above situations necessitate the authorities to step in to protect children. So why should it be different here?
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  #27  
Old 02.07.2015, 18:12
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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Replace this situation with a little girl being "taken on vacation" to Ethiopia, or Sudan, where there are concerns that the trip is for her to get mutilated.

Replace this situation with a little boy taken on vacation, where there are concerns that he may be at the hands of a paedophile ring.

Replace this situation with a young girl taken to her parents' homecountry "on vacation", so she can get married off at the tender age of 15.

I think you'll find that the above situations necessitate the authorities to step in to protect children. So why should it be different here?
Yes, yes, I get it: "something must be done!".

But what? And how?
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  #28  
Old 02.07.2015, 18:13
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

It's obvious, isn't it?

Don't let kids travel, ever.
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  #29  
Old 02.07.2015, 18:35
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

Or...ban children!
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  #30  
Old 02.07.2015, 18:53
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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Yes, yes, I get it: "something must be done!".

But what? And how?
I don't know what or how. But I am glad you accept that "something must be done", as you put it.
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  #31  
Old 02.07.2015, 20:29
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

It is now confirmed, the family called the UK and said they are in Syria. As long as they don't come back, I don't care what happens to them.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-b...herts-33363861
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  #32  
Old 02.07.2015, 22:12
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

If I knew some parents where just about to take there 2 kids off to a fanatical religious 3rd world country with a well document gun and violence issue, next week, should I inform the authorities ??
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  #33  
Old 02.07.2015, 22:24
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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If I knew some parents where just about to take there 2 kids off to a fanatical religious 3rd world country with a well document gun and violence issue, next week, should I inform the authorities ??
It's okay BB, we've decided not to go now.
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  #34  
Old 02.07.2015, 22:47
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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If I knew some parents where just about to take there 2 kids off to a fanatical religious 3rd world country with a well document gun and violence issue, next week, should I inform the authorities ??
Actually some parts of the U.S. are really quite nice and not like that at all.
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  #35  
Old 02.07.2015, 23:26
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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Actually some parts of the U.S. are really quite nice and not like that at all.

Exactly my thought.
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  #36  
Old 02.07.2015, 23:36
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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If I knew some parents where just about to take there 2 kids off to a fanatical religious 3rd world country with a well document gun and violence issue, next week, should I inform the authorities ??
Such as Switzerland?

Tom
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  #37  
Old 03.07.2015, 00:17
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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I
I find this truly shocking, looking at the picture, they all seem very integrated in the British society, this could very well be a mystery!
They must be treated very badly there if they were willing to leave UK for that dangerous area...how else can someone risk losing their lives and their loved ones' lives if it wasn't some serious problem with the way they are accepted/integrated? They're following an utopia which seems more "welcoming"/accepting than what they used to have...and they're not the only ones!
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  #38  
Old 03.07.2015, 00:22
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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They must be treated very badly there if they were willing to leave for that dangerous area...if it wasn't some serious problem with the way they are accepted/integrated?
Sounds like some other place I know.
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  #39  
Old 03.07.2015, 00:26
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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Sounds like some other place I know.
You're right, UK is not the only one...take France for instance.....
Anyway, they seem like a real family so I hope they're all right, if that's possible. (though how can anyone be safe in Syria nowadays...? It's not like they left for the USA, or Switzerland, or anywhere else where they could be better off rather than in the UK, is it?)

Last edited by greenmount; 03.07.2015 at 01:01.
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  #40  
Old 03.07.2015, 01:06
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Re: Luton family of 12 feared to have gone to Syria to join ISIS

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So what are we going to do? Send out a search party? Confiscate the passports of Muslim children "for their own good"?

There is no way to prevent families from going to Syria that doesn't involve a massive infringement of civil liberties. British citizens have a right to travel. They have a right to take their children with them. Where they go is none of the police's or government's business unless they have actually committed a crime and need to be apprehended.
Oh well, what are those civil liberties of a few if that's done for the greater good?
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