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Old 14.07.2015, 19:27
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Thank fox for the SNP

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33520547

No bad, no bad, I'm reconsidering my opinion of Nicola Sturgeon, a nice black eye for Cameron and by extension his vicious posh twat friends.
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Old 14.07.2015, 21:11
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

I wouldn't trust the foxy Ms Sturgeon as far as I could throw her! But I'm happy for M. les Renards!
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Old 14.07.2015, 23:43
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

At least Nicola has got a "Twat". I can only wonder at your command of the English language.
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Old 15.07.2015, 00:38
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

This is only a stay of execution for foxes. The tories will push through a bill to prevent the SNP and other Scottish MPs voting on matters that don't affect Scotland. This will be in exchange for some concessions for Scotland.

This will effectively give the tories a majority of around 70 in England, giving them an almost free reign to pass legislation such as foxhunting
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Old 15.07.2015, 09:40
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting, Scottish MPs voting on a purely English law is fundamentally hypocritical.

They had a referendum on independence which resulted in a no vote, but still got a new law with significantly more devolution.

It's pure political manoevering and dishonesty; my previous respect for Sturgeon is now gone, she's not really the honest straight spoken representative she pretents to be, as bad as Alex Salmond now.
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Old 15.07.2015, 10:16
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting, Scottish MPs voting on a purely English law is fundamentally hypocritical.

They had a referendum on independence which resulted in a no vote, but still got a new law with significantly more devolution.

It's pure political manoevering and dishonesty; my previous respect for Sturgeon is now gone, she's not really the honest straight spoken representative she pretents to be, as bad as Alex Salmond now.
It makes me wonder whether the whole thing was party a trap for SNP and a way to push forward 'English devolution'. Then I figured there's no way they'd take the PR hit for it.

I guess they'll introduce the vote after the reforms.
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Old 15.07.2015, 10:46
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting, Scottish MPs voting on a purely English law is fundamentally hypocritical.

......
Why? Labour (and by extension their constituents) asked them to help. It wouldn't have been very neighbourly to ignore that.
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Old 15.07.2015, 10:56
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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This is only a stay of execution for foxes. The tories will push through a bill to prevent the SNP and other Scottish MPs voting on matters that don't affect Scotland. This will be in exchange for some concessions for Scotland.

This will effectively give the tories a majority of around 70 in England, giving them an almost free reign to pass legislation such as foxhunting
Not necessarily; many Tories, including cabinet ministers, are anti-fox hunting and Cameron has said it will be a free vote in any case.
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:10
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33520547

No bad, no bad, I'm reconsidering my opinion of Nicola Sturgeon, a nice black eye for Cameron and by extension his vicious posh twat friends.
Current Scottish law allows multiple dogs to attack a fox, when it is underground in it's lair, it's home.

Current English law allows only 2 dogs to encourage a fox to come out of the home, or lair, when it is then shot, not hounded.

So it isn't a big thank you to Nicola Sturgeon, is it?
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:24
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting, Scottish MPs voting on a purely English law is fundamentally hypocritical.
I understand that this is an emotionally charged topic, but as a non-Brit do I honestly not get it. Switzerland or Germany are confederations and while the states/cantons have a lot of power and organize most things of daily life from schools to police does the federal government agree on principles. Animal rights is a principle regardless where the hunts happen. Germany for example is currently debating a ban on the slaughter of pregnant cows... and nobody in Bavaria would ever complain that city states like Berlin or Hamburg should not have a say just because they don't have any cattle farming...
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:35
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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I understand that this is an emotionally charged topic, but as a non-Brit do I honestly not get it. Switzerland or Germany are confederations and while the states/cantons have a lot of power and organize most things of daily life from schools to police does the federal government agree on principles. Animal rights is a principle regardless where the hunts happen. Germany for example is currently debating a ban on the slaughter of pregnant cows... and nobody in Bavaria would ever complain that city states like Berlin or Hamburg should not have a say just because they don't have any cattle farming...
Yes but those laws are federal - and I did say "regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting".

The hunting laws are devolved - Scotland has a different set to those in England, but Sturgeon is proposing the Scottish MPs still vote on the English laws. This is the direct equivalent of the people in SG voting on a cantonal law in ZH, except in Switzerland it's set up properly so they can't.
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:46
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

I'm glad that Sturgeon is coming out as a liar on these relatively minor issues. Hopefully the public will realise she doesn't have the best interests of Scotland at heart when she calls another bloody referendum for independence.
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:52
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Yes but those laws are federal - and I did say "regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting".

The hunting laws are devolved - Scotland has a different set to those in England, but Sturgeon is proposing the Scottish MPs still vote on the English laws. This is the direct equivalent of the people in SG voting on a cantonal law in ZH, except in Switzerland it's set up properly so they can't.
But that's how it works in Switzerland as well: the only reason women finally got the right to vote in Appenzell despite the Appenzeller repeatedly democratically deciding that they shouldn't was the federal Government deciding on a principle and the canton had to implement it...
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:58
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

Yes, but they did it with a federal law, applying to all cantons although in effect only Appenzell wasn't already compliant.

They didn't do a federal vote on a cantonal law.

If Sturgeon was proposing that hunting should stop being devolved and become a UK wide topic, so everyone has the same law and same right to vote on it, that would be fine.

But she isn't - she wants to keep it devolved so Scotland controls their own law, but still get to vote on it in other areas of the UK.
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Old 15.07.2015, 11:58
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Current Scottish law allows multiple dogs to attack a fox, when it is underground in it's lair, it's home.

Current English law allows only 2 dogs to encourage a fox to come out of the home, or lair, when it is then shot, not hounded.

So it isn't a big thank you to Nicola Sturgeon, is it?
What utter tripe!

Dogs in Scotland are NOT allowed to attack a fox, only flush them out onto guns.

Do you think Sturgeon and the SNP made the current Scottish laws? Try again. They are currently in the process of reviewing and tightening them, so let's not try to make out she's trying to make the poor English suffer, out of spite, when in fact she is trying to make life better for animals in general.

I can't see why any moral human being would be against that, but then again I don't go out on horseback with my dogs to terrify and slaughter animals...tally ho!
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:01
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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I'm glad that Sturgeon is coming out as a liar on these relatively minor issues. Hopefully the public will realise she doesn't have the best interests of Scotland at heart when she calls another bloody referendum for independence.
Until EVEL laws come into place, the job of Scottish MPs is to represent the will of their constituents to the best of their ability, in all matters. Scotland on the whole is anti- fox hunting, so SNP MPs (note, not members of Scottish parliament!) have an obligation to do what is right for the people who voted for them.
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:03
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Yes but those laws are federal - and I did say "regardless of the rights or wrongs of fox hunting".

The hunting laws are devolved - Scotland has a different set to those in England, but Sturgeon is proposing the Scottish MPs still vote on the English laws. This is the direct equivalent of the people in SG voting on a cantonal law in ZH, except in Switzerland it's set up properly so they can't.
It is also made more absurd by the fact that the proposals would bring England closer to what Scotland has!
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:09
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Until EVEL laws come into place, the job of Scottish MPs is to represent the will of their constituents to the best of their ability, in all matters. Scotland on the whole is anti- fox hunting, so SNP MPs (note, not members of Scottish parliament!) have an obligation to do what is right for the people who voted for them.
I totally agree. I don't care about fox hunting.

What I do care about is her saying she will abstain on an issue and then not doing that. Just like she wouldn't rule out another referendum in the near future during the election campaign and just told people not to vote for them if they don't want Scottish independence.
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:17
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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Until EVEL laws come into place, the job of Scottish MPs is to represent the will of their constituents to the best of their ability, in all matters. Scotland on the whole is anti- fox hunting, so SNP MPs (note, not members of Scottish parliament!) have an obligation to do what is right for the people who voted for them.
I agree, but voting on laws that are only applicable to England is not right for the Scottish people - it is at best irrelevant, and at worst bad because it is clearly unfair and therefore increases divisions in the UK that the Scots just voted to limit to a range of devolution items.

On that argument the new devolution laws shouldn't go through - if you took a popular vote across England on what was "best for England" they probably wouldn't be supported, at least not without significant changes in the funding rules and not before EVEL.

I think a level of fair play is required, and really thought Sturgeon was going to provide it within the devolution framework. But now she's showing it's purely political to make it as difficult as possible to hold the UK together and force another referendum despite the "once in a generation" commitment.
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:21
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Re: Thank fox for the SNP

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I can't see why any moral human being would be against that, but then again I don't go out on horseback with my dogs to terrify and slaughter animals...tally ho!
Do you see why any moral human would be against a ban on animal farming and eating meat?

I can see good reasons for such a ban and may even admit that supporters of such a ban may have the ethical high-ground. Fox hunting involves far less cruelty (number of foxes killed, which anyway are likely to be killed for pest control reasons) and provide a benefit to the community that is harder to replace (compared with substituting a vegan diet for all meat eaters).

Although the animal rights activists would like to picture people involved in the hunt (and meat eaters) as pure sadists out to make animals suffer, that is not the case.

Even Tony Blair admitted he was wrong to introduce the ban and admitted he had no clue about the countryside and its importance until he spoke to a woman involved and then afterwards resolved to hobble the ban legislation he put in place (and told the home secretary not to enforce it).
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