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View Poll Results: Who gets your vote for Labour Leader?
Jeremy Corbyn 11 36.67%
Owen Smith 7 23.33%
Don't care 12 40.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #321  
Old 30.07.2016, 21:24
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Shame, I was looking forward to seeing his efforts to get on the ballot paper.

So next is: when he wins then the 172 MPs/MEPs who have no confidence in him split from the party and form their own. Leaving the MPs without a leader or backing and Corbyn without any effective opposition in Parliament except himself. Presumably it could also trigger a round of by-elections from those constituents miffed with their MPs for leaving Labour.

I really can't work out which political system is proving to be the craziest at the moment: the US or UK. Who said UK summer politics were dull!
And now the plans are being laid.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36933590

Looking at the poll results so far it's obvious EF'ers aren't Labour supporters.
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  #322  
Old 30.07.2016, 21:47
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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And now the plans are being laid.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36933590

Looking at the poll results so far it's obvious EF'ers aren't Labour supporters.
Of course Corbyn is ignoring the simple fact that the vast majority of Labour MPs voted against him in the no-confidence vote and most of his shadow cabinet jumped ship.

If Corbyn is voted in again without him doing anything to restore relationships with these dissidents then likely the party will split
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  #323  
Old 30.07.2016, 22:15
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

I don't think there's anything he can do. They didn't want him in the first place and have had to put up with him due to the rules. With such a massive vote of no confidence, if he is returned as leader of the party they no other option than to split. There's no way to heal such a wide breach between a leader and his troops.

He may expect they'll all fall into line, but he's delusional on that score. They simply can't, having made such an effort to get rid of him. If he stays then they have to go.
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  #324  
Old 31.07.2016, 15:59
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Presumably fewer people voted for Corbyn as leader (251,417) than voted for the 172 Labour MPs who said they had no confidence in him. I realise there is likely to be an overlap, but I don't understand why the votes for him as party leader should be considered to carry greater weight than votes for MPs in a general election.
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  #325  
Old 31.07.2016, 16:25
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Presumably fewer people voted for Corbyn as leader (251,417) than voted for the 172 Labour MPs who said they had no confidence in him. I realise there is likely to be an overlap, but I don't understand why the votes for him as party leader should be considered to carry greater weight than votes for MPs in a general election.
This is why they have a rule that the leadership candidates must be the ones proposed by the MPs; in this election Corbyn seems to have bypassed this rule.
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  #326  
Old 31.07.2016, 17:08
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Presumably fewer people voted for Corbyn as leader (251,417) than voted for the 172 Labour MPs who said they had no confidence in him. I realise there is likely to be an overlap, but I don't understand why the votes for him as party leader should be considered to carry greater weight than votes for MPs in a general election.
Feels like I suddenly know people who are party members, when 10 or 20 yrs ago, none of my friends were paid up members of political parties. Can't say I've ever felt the need to be a member of any party, but I haven't had an issue with the leaders of my prefered party.


I'm very disappointed with the high court judgement that Corbyn doesn't need the support of 20% of the MPs to have his name on the ballot. When Corbyn stage managed the Tony Benn coup against Neil Kinnock, Kinnock needed the support of his MPs to be on the ballot. Surely that set a precedent, particularly when the actual written rule is so vague.


As I keep telling my Labour friends, regardless of what happens between now and September, Corbyn needs to inspire approximately 17.5million people to vote Labour, and there's bugger all chance of that ever happening with him as party leader!
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  #327  
Old 31.07.2016, 23:35
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Of course Corbyn is ignoring the simple fact that the vast majority of Labour MPs voted against him in the no-confidence vote and most of his shadow cabinet jumped ship.

If Corbyn is voted in again without him doing anything to restore relationships with these dissidents then likely the party will split


well possible, BUT split into what ?


options
--- Social Llberal Party &
--- Socialist Workers Party &
---- Social Democratic Party
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  #328  
Old 31.07.2016, 23:49
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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well possible, BUT split into what ?


options
--- Social Llberal Party &
--- Socialist Workers Party &
---- Social Democratic Party
Well if Corbyn wins then I guess most of the existing Labour MPs will go off and start a "New Labour" party, probably most of remaining MPs will switch over sooner, or later.
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  #329  
Old 01.08.2016, 00:58
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Well if Corbyn wins then I guess most of the existing Labour MPs will go off and start a "New Labour" party, probably most of remaining MPs will switch over sooner, or later.

the questin is whether Labour will survive as a single party or split into several parties
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  #330  
Old 01.08.2016, 10:10
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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well possible, BUT split into what ?


options
--- Social Llberal Party &
--- Socialist Workers Party &
---- Social Democratic Party
Nope, the Labour Party.

"The Telegraph said "leading moderates" in the party were planning to elect their own leader and shadow cabinet if Mr Corbyn wins the current leadership contest, and possibly launch a legal challenge for Labour's name."

Under Reb77Br's theory they would seem to have more entitlement to it than Corbyn's lot.
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  #331  
Old 01.08.2016, 11:57
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Despite his strong views, Neil Kinnock doesn't seem to favour a split.

Audio version of Neil Kinnock's speech to the PLP on July 4th 2016

"There will be no split! There will be no retreat! Damn it, this is our party! I've been in it for 60 years, I'm not leaving it to anybody!"

A couple of short documentaries which I thought were interesting:
Jeremy Corbyn: The Outsider
Exclusive footage reveals Jeremy Corbyn’s insiders struggled to get Labour leader to fight Brexit
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  #332  
Old 01.08.2016, 12:05
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

That would be a very protracted and expensive legal case, which would waste millions of public funds. Hardly a vote winner.

It speaks volumes about Corbyn's vanity that he's already stated they have no right to the 'Labour' name. The whole debarcle beggar's belief and is alienating droves of the voting public every day it goes on for.

A active Labour Party member friend posted this yesterday because it pretty much sums up how he feels now.

Quote:
Questions all Jeremy Corbyn supporters need to answer

Labour and the left teeter on the brink of disaster. There, I said it. I’ll explain why. But first, it has become increasingly common in politics to reduce disagreements to bad faith. Rather than accepting somebody has a different perspective because, well, that’s what they think, you look for an ulterior motive instead. Everything from self-aggrandisement to careerism to financial corruption to the circles in which the other person moves: any explanation but an honest disagreement. It becomes a convenient means of avoiding talking about substance, of course.
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/ques...ed3#.acfhp8hd0
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  #333  
Old 03.08.2016, 10:23
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Corbyn's been holding rallies in Leeds, Hull, Liverpool and next Brighton. Exactly where Labour need to drum up support
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  #334  
Old 03.08.2016, 10:30
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Off topic, but going back to the post that said Owen Jones should become Labour Leader, here he is arguing that the tax payer should fund gay men to have promiscuous unprotected sex on the NHS. Only £400 per month.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...gay-mens-lives
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  #335  
Old 04.08.2016, 13:40
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Will social media help Jeremy Corbyn win Labour leadership - again?


"...most of the pro-Corbyn material on sites such as Facebook and Twitter does not come from Mr Corbyn or his team ... Momentum is incredibly active, and always has been much more so than the Labour Party establishment. "In general what I think this is doing, whether it's Momentum or other movements like UKIP, is it allows anti-establishment surges to happen. ..."

It would be interesting to know who the backers of UKIP and Momentum are. Does anyone know if information is available on their financial donors?

There seems to be nothing on the Momentum website, and some initial digging suggests that transparency isn't exactly the order of the day...
Hard-left Corbyn-supporting Momentum group must be probed by elections watchdog over claims it failed to register donations, says Labour MP
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  #336  
Old 04.08.2016, 14:19
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Will social media help Jeremy Corbyn win Labour leadership - again?


"...most of the pro-Corbyn material on sites such as Facebook and Twitter does not come from Mr Corbyn or his team ... Momentum is incredibly active, and always has been much more so than the Labour Party establishment. "In general what I think this is doing, whether it's Momentum or other movements like UKIP, is it allows anti-establishment surges to happen. ..."

It would be interesting to know who the backers of UKIP and Momentum are. Does anyone know if information is available on their financial donors?

There seems to be nothing on the Momentum website, and some initial digging suggests that transparency isn't exactly the order of the day...
Hard-left Corbyn-supporting Momentum group must be probed by elections watchdog over claims it failed to register donations, says Labour MP
Probably all in roubles.
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  #337  
Old 04.08.2016, 16:49
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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It would be interesting to know who the backers of UKIP and Momentum are. Does anyone know if information is available on their financial donors?

There seems to be nothing on the Momentum website, and some initial digging suggests that transparency isn't exactly the order of the day...
Hard-left Corbyn-supporting Momentum group must be probed by elections watchdog over claims it failed to register donations, says Labour MP
it disturbs me that so many young people believe Momentum represents main streat Labour views and ethos. It doesn't. Even in the '70's, it would have been viewed as what it is, hard left. Even the Morning Star is suspicious, and that's saying something!

Quote:

Initially only Labour members were allowed in, but after an early vote this rule was relaxed to include supporters, which meant that two local activists currently suspended by the party were invited to literally come in out of the cold.


They’ve been suspended because they’re members of the Alliance for Workers Liberty (AWL), which used to field candidates but deregistered as a party two days after Corbyn’s election and now encourages Labour membership.


For a small group, the AWL packs a big punch, and the dozen members and close allies present on Thursday were organised. At the start of the meeting they unsuccessfully tried to vote out the chair then spent the rest of the evening complaining about a lack of democracy, before managing to get their “slate” of candidates elected as delegates
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/...m#.V6MyRpcyEUJ


As for the funding, this article is interesting, even if it does come from The Telegraph.

Quote:

The fact that Soubry is also one of the ministers with responsibility for the steel industry might have convinced local Labour members that their £500 could have been more effectively spent in campaigning against her and her government.

But no. Activists’ money was instead used to fund an event billed, ominously, as “A day of inclusive discussion & educational workshops”. And if that isn’t enough to make your blood run cold, posters for the March 5 event warned visitors that the conference would be addressed not only by the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell but by Christine Shawcroft and Chris Williamson.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...s-own-enemies/
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  #338  
Old 04.08.2016, 19:18
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Probably all in roubles.
And CHF. I`m a paid up member of the Labour Party. Was a member of the TGWU. NUPE. Gewerskschaft Bau und Holz. UNIA. Was a delegate on the Hackney Trades Council and Rank and File and UNIA.Voted for my choice of members of the N.E.C. will vote for Corbyn when I get my ballot papers and pay into Momentum because "yer pays yer money and takes yer choice. .....or put my money where my mouth is and think that they are the only chance for organised labour. (Work force not the Party.) After watching the Labour Party since Harold Wilson I don`t see an alternative.
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  #339  
Old 04.08.2016, 20:47
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

I believe that if Corbyn, Jones, Smith or another far left leader is chosen, then Labour will be out of office for another 14 years. Is that what mainstream members want? Wouldn't it be sensible to choose someone nearer the centre and get at least some of the government policies changed?
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  #340  
Old 04.08.2016, 20:47
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Voted for my choice of members of the N.E.C. will vote for Corbyn when I get my ballot papers and pay into Momentum because "yer pays yer money and takes yer choice. .....or put my money where my mouth is and think that they are the only chance for organised labour. (Work force not the Party.) After watching the Labour Party since Harold Wilson I don`t see an alternative.
Depressing, isn't it?

A good mate of mine made the mistake of recounting an 'interesting story' on the Momentum page, about when he got pissed with John McDonnell at an event that he'd helped to organise. The abuse he got was incredible! I've seen the thread where all these new comers are calling him a traitor and a Blairite, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Even after this, he will still vote Corbyn as he doesn't see a viable alternative, but fears for the future of the party.
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