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  #281  
Old 01.09.2015, 17:08
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Re: Calais

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I've got an idea for positive action. Big sea blockade off the African coast to stop boats leaving in the first place. If necessary board and return said boats to North African shore.
It would have to be a pretty massive sea blockade in order to cover the whole African Coast. I don't think there are enough countries with the necessary shipping resources to ever make that a viable option.

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Nope. But if people trying to cross know they'll be unsuccessful then they won't be stupid enough to pay these crooks anyway. If they pay up when they know the consequences and get turned back that's their problem. At the moment there are no effective consequences. And yes, I'm including the possibility of drowning in that. If that doesn't deter them, then it's up to the EU to do it for them by stopping them from even leaving North Africa. Or alternatively, let them sail and drown - no rescue possible - and any that do make it to Europe are immediately shipped back with no opportunity to claim asylum.

What's needed are processing centres in North Africa where these people can apply properly for asylum or a work visa and then be allowed to travel onwards if they get permission to do so.
These people are desperate. They already set out knowing that there's a high risk of them not making it. There will still be plenty of people willing to take that risk believing that they can get around a 'blockade' should there be one.
Mass drownings are not ever going to happen, it's a pretty inhumane thing to do to anybody don't you think?

In a ideal world there would be processing centres in North Africa but implementing something like that is much easier said than done.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 01.09.2015 at 17:20.
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  #282  
Old 01.09.2015, 17:17
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Re: Calais

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It would have to be a pretty massive sea blockade in order to cover the whole African Coast. I don't think there are enough countries with the necessary shipping resources to ever make that a viable option.
Remember the Barbary pirates? If we could defeat them then, surely we can defeat them now.


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These people are desperate. They already set out knowing that there's a high risk of them not making it. There will still be plenty of people willing to take that risk believing that they can get around a 'blockade' should there be one.
I don't think its only desperation. Its also the fact that some do get through and send news home and that builds up hope. Make it clear that its an absolutely no hope operation and they will stop coming.
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  #283  
Old 01.09.2015, 17:47
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Re: Calais

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It would have to be a pretty massive sea blockade in order to cover the whole African Coast. I don't think there are enough countries with the necessary shipping resources to ever make that a viable option.



These people are desperate. They already set out knowing that there's a high risk of them not making it. There will still be plenty of people willing to take that risk believing that they can get around a 'blockade' should there be one.
Mass drownings are not ever going to happen, it's a pretty inhumane thing to do to anybody don't you think?

In a ideal world there would be processing centres in North Africa but implementing something like that is much easier said than done.
Asylum applications used to be handled by the various embassies/consulates in a country before they brought in the (rapidly dissentigrating) Dublin Regulation so I don't see why something similar couldn't be set up. Do it in the camps themselves in Syria, Libya, etc. Whatever is done will need organisation and staff so why not put the effort there. So far we certainly don't seem to have done much on getting rid of the traffickers themselves despite millions/billions being put towards it. If we have it hasn't made the news channels - major people trafficking ring broken hasn't made it on to my radar.

And not all are desperate, some are just bored.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33986899
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  #284  
Old 08.09.2015, 10:38
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Re: Calais

English Channel ferry worker strike chaos prompts union apology

Gee, how kind of them. But they may strike in October anyway.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-34174818

Typical striker mentality: why they think they should be paid for the months after the company closed I don't know. MyFerryLink ceased to exist on 1st July so why they're due wages for July, August and September is beyond me.

Any money they get should immediately be paid to those companies/travellers whose journeys they disrupted so badly. Then maybe they'd get the message that such action won't be tolerated in future.
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  #285  
Old 08.09.2015, 20:51
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Re: Calais

Haha, The Mayor of Calais said today that the migrants want to get to Britain for benefits and to work on the black market.

https://www.politicshome.com/party-p...s-calais-mayor
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  #286  
Old 08.09.2015, 21:41
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Re: Calais

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Haha, The Mayor of Calais said today that the migrants want to get to Britain for benefits and to work on the black market.

https://www.politicshome.com/party-p...s-calais-mayor
Not sure they could do both. To get benefits they'd have to register which theoretically would show they're illegals.

But I do agree that it's easier for them to find work illegally. Despite the high financial penalties employers can incur it doesn't seem to have much effect in stopping them employing illegal workers. Why Britain is so dead set against having an ID card system I don't know.

Don't see how she could have the border opened up though. UK customs/passport control is organised by the British government in agreement with the French as far as I know, not down on her government level. Still, if she wants to try the Brits can just send the army in to "defend" our corner of France.
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  #287  
Old 09.09.2015, 11:24
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Re: Calais

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Most are not asylum seekers, but economic migrants trying it on. Germany to a certain extent only has itself to blame as they've said they'll allow Syrians claim asylum in Germany and not send them back to their entry country and other nationalities to be processed in Germany and not in their EU country of entry too. They've basically dumped the Dublin Regulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation


NO, most are NOT economic migrants but people escaping from a country in a horrible civil war


and nobody wants to go to Greece


Port of entry makes sense in the USA but not in Europe
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  #288  
Old 09.09.2015, 11:41
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Re: Calais

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It would have to be a pretty massive sea blockade in order to cover the whole African Coast. I don't think there are enough countries with the necessary shipping resources to ever make that a viable option.

Most of the ship traffic in the Med has nothing to do with migrants etc, and countries like France and Italy and Spain NEED this traffic also




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These people are desperate. They already set out knowing that there's a high risk of them not making it. There will still be plenty of people willing to take that risk believing that they can get around a 'blockade' should there be one.

Set out ? They did set out by land from all those formerly British and French colonies like Senegal, Ivory Coast and Congo Brazzaville as well as Ghana and Nigeria


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In a ideal world there would be processing centres in North Africa but implementing something like that is much easier said than done.

Why in North Africa ?? The mess was not created by Morocco Algeria Tunisia but by Britain and France, so that the processing centres ought to be in London and Paris
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  #289  
Old 09.09.2015, 12:23
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Re: Calais

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NO, most are NOT economic migrants but people escaping from a country in a horrible civil war


and nobody wants to go to Greece


Port of entry makes sense in the USA but not in Europe
Doesn't matter whether anyone wants to go there or not. EU rules are claim asylum/register in the first EU country you land in. Tough luck if it's not one you want to go too. These people were perfectly safe in the camps they were already in, if they move on that makes them economic migrants not refugees in my book.

And why should port of entry apply to the US and not Europe? They have similar problems with illegals from Mexico/South America. And seem to do just as bad a job at keeping them out as Europe does.
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Old 09.09.2015, 15:31
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Re: Calais

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Doesn't matter whether anyone wants to go there or not. EU rules are claim asylum/register in the first EU country you land in. Tough luck if it's not one you want to go too. These people were perfectly safe in the camps they were already in, if they move on that makes them economic migrants not refugees in my book.

And why should port of entry apply to the US and not Europe? They have similar problems with illegals from Mexico/South America. And seem to do just as bad a job at keeping them out as Europe does.
The rules for seeking Asylum in the first safe country were set up primarily to manage situations such as a few political dissidents being persecuted in their home countries. They were certainly not envisaged to cope with the mass migration of millions of people.

It is not fair on those countries closest to war zones facing the major impact of this purely due to their location. This system needs to be revised to be much fairer to those countries, especially as they are not necessarily the most able to cope logistically and economically.

Some kind of quota system based on size of the country, economy etc. seems to be the fairest option. This should be set up by the United Nations, not just the EU. It could then take account of migration around the world, not just Syria.
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Old 09.09.2015, 15:39
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Re: Calais

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Some kind of quota system based on size of the country, economy etc. seems to be the fairest option. This should be set up by the United Nations, not just the EU. It could then take account of migration around the world, not just Syria.
The problem is, Germany wants these migrants as it sees them as a source of cheap labour for its industry and believes their contributions can help save the creaking social system and the ticking time bomb of retiring baby boomers.

So the concept of protecting people for reasons of humanity and charity clashes with capitalist economic interests. It is cynical to use a tool designed to be charitable and twist it over for your own purposes. If Germany wants immigrants, it should create some parallel system to make that possible rather than wreaking havoc on smaller and poorer countries just to feed its own profits and the grandstanding objectives of its populist leadership.
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  #292  
Old 09.09.2015, 16:25
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Re: Calais

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The rules for seeking Asylum in the first safe country were set up primarily to manage situations such as a few political dissidents being persecuted in their home countries. They were certainly not envisaged to cope with the mass migration of millions of people.

It is not fair on those countries closest to war zones facing the major impact of this purely due to their location. This system needs to be revised to be much fairer to those countries, especially as they are not necessarily the most able to cope logistically and economically.

Some kind of quota system based on size of the country, economy etc. seems to be the fairest option. This should be set up by the United Nations, not just the EU. It could then take account of migration around the world, not just Syria.
Then change the system. Insist they register in the first EU country, then allocate them another country to be moved to while their claim is assessed. That's pretty much what they're proposing now with mandatory quotas - not that the majority will want to go anywhere other than Germany. Good luck getting them elsewhere.
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  #293  
Old 09.09.2015, 16:53
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Re: Calais

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The problem is, Germany wants these migrants as it sees them as a source of cheap labour for its industry and believes their contributions can help save the creaking social system and the ticking time bomb of retiring baby boomers.

So the concept of protecting people for reasons of humanity and charity clashes with capitalist economic interests. It is cynical to use a tool designed to be charitable and twist it over for your own purposes. If Germany wants immigrants, it should create some parallel system to make that possible rather than wreaking havoc on smaller and poorer countries just to feed its own profits and the grandstanding objectives of its populist leadership.
There is a perception that a similar situation exists in the UK. I don't know the exact truth of it but feel sure that in part it is true
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  #294  
Old 09.09.2015, 16:57
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Re: Calais

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The problem is, Germany wants these migrants as it sees them as a source of cheap labour for its industry and believes their contributions can help save the creaking social system and the ticking time bomb of retiring baby boomers.

So the concept of protecting people for reasons of humanity and charity clashes with capitalist economic interests. It is cynical to use a tool designed to be charitable and twist it over for your own purposes. If Germany wants immigrants, it should create some parallel system to make that possible rather than wreaking havoc on smaller and poorer countries just to feed its own profits and the grandstanding objectives of its populist leadership.
+1

I suppose that deep purple meant that the refugees should also be redistributed to US, China, Russia, Iran, Australia, Brazil etc etc though. (by invoking the United Nations)
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  #295  
Old 09.09.2015, 17:11
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Re: Calais

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+1

I suppose that deep purple meant that the refugees should also be redistributed to US, China, Russia, Iran, Australia, Brazil etc etc though. (by invoking the United Nations)
Certainly some of those countries have a responsibility and the resources to help, especially the USA
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  #296  
Old 11.09.2015, 15:46
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Re: Calais

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Doesn't matter whether anyone wants to go there or not. EU rules are claim asylum/register in the first EU country you land in. Tough luck if it's not one you want to go too. These people were perfectly safe in the camps they were already in, if they move on that makes them economic migrants not refugees in my book.

And why should port of entry apply to the US and not Europe? They have similar problems with illegals from Mexico/South America. And seem to do just as bad a job at keeping them out as Europe does.

If you arrive in NYC you can walk to LA, and still are in the same country


The first port of call for most is Greece, and the Greeks will NOT agree


your arguments are why so many try to get to Italy and France, but Italy tries to send them onward


they were NOT safe in the camps in Greece
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Old 11.09.2015, 17:09
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Re: Calais

Much as Europe may like to ape the States with Free Movement, the fact is it's not all one country and I doubt it ever will be. And I'd be pretty surprised if such a horde descended on America that some states wouldn't close their borders to them. Or think what would happen if the same numbers tried crossing the border from Mexico. National Guard would certainly be called out, if not the US Army itself, and I can guarantee that somewhere along the way someone would get shot.

And why weren't they safe in Greece? There's no war going on there that I know of.
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Old 11.09.2015, 17:43
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Re: Calais

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Much as Europe may like to ape the States with Free Movement, the fact is it's not all one country and I doubt it ever will be. And I'd be pretty surprised if such a horde descended on America that some states wouldn't close their borders to them. Or think what would happen if the same numbers tried crossing the border from Mexico. National Guard would certainly be called out, if not the US Army itself, and I can guarantee that somewhere along the way someone would get shot.

And why weren't they safe in Greece? There's no war going on there that I know of.
I agree with you. There are some nuances though:
- the refugee problem was known by the EU officials, in fact by every and each member state. Those that had a say, even influenced the destiny of those countries in the Middle East, should have known the problem is going to be bigger and...act
- not only it was known, but it was never discussed in the press, or elsewhere, as they had better things to do....
- yes, people are coming in hordes and this is the right word now. BUT, let's not forget who is mixing all the time in those countries, who is pursuing a policy that is aimed to steal their natural resources, who is supporting corrupt governments and change them all the time as they wish.
- add in local contribution which, from various reasons is not at all negligible I admit, and you have now what we all see.
The only solution I see is to support fixing the problems locally, help people/countries develop, follow less egotistic interests for long term solutions.
Oh well, sweet dreams I suppose.
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Old 18.09.2015, 13:04
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Re: Calais

Back on topic, Calais: another migrant died Friday, the 10th since june, he was electrocuted by overhead cables when he climbed on top of a train.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34287750

http://m.welt.de/politik/ausland/article146552587/Fluechtling-stirbt-am-Eurotunnel-durch-Stromschlag.html#
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Old 07.10.2015, 14:09
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Re: Calais

Two more seemed to have "walked" through the Tunnel.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34464620

My question is why are they even being detained? Send them straight back to France. Quickest way to deter anyone else trying to follow in their footsteps - literally!
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