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Old 26.08.2015, 11:48
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Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

Women-only train carriages.

Labour leadership frontrunner Jeremy Corbyn has said he would consider introducing women-only carriages on public transport to help reduce harassment.

They would also be great for Switzerland too no? In fact US subway, London Underground, etc. fantastic Jeremy!
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Old 26.08.2015, 11:53
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

Third world countries have women only carriages too. Perhaps that's his long term aim.

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Old 26.08.2015, 11:54
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

In my view it's a dumb idea, they should solve any issues with harrassment by improving security generally, and by making is socially unacceptable.

I wasn't aware of it being a significant issue in Switzerland.
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Old 26.08.2015, 12:04
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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In my view it's a dumb idea, they should solve any issues with harrassment by improving security generally, and by making is socially unacceptable.

I wasn't aware of it being a significant issue in Switzerland.
The idea is going to be put to women, as one would sensibly expect. I think the service at night would be very good.

It doesn't also necessarily have to be 'an issue' as you put it, does it? Women may not feel safe in certain areas/on certain trains when travelling so it would help them to feel safer and therefore have a more pleasant journey which, in my view, is a good idea.
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Old 26.08.2015, 12:11
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

We could also reserve certain seats on buses for blacks, and also certain drinking fountains, just to protect them from harrasment mind you
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Old 26.08.2015, 12:45
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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The idea is going to be put to women, as one would sensibly expect. I think the service at night would be very good.

It doesn't also necessarily have to be 'an issue' as you put it, does it? Women may not feel safe in certain areas/on certain trains when travelling so it would help them to feel safer and therefore have a more pleasant journey which, in my view, is a good idea.
In a democracy we don't put ideas to a vote only from the people who would benefit. Except in apartheid era South Africa of course.

I would like a carriage that has no audible music, no people who smell, no noisy children and only people who have short legs that don't cross the centre line of opposing seats.

However, I'm reasonable enough to accept that I have to share this with everyone and pay a fare reflecting reasonable compromises. I don't see any reason to accept a sexist proposal to give others more rights on the same service.
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Old 26.08.2015, 12:53
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

This was probably a well-intentioned idea but doesn't seem to have been fully thought out.

Proper security in the first place is more important. Whilst most violence towards women may be by men it is not exclusive.

If the person with the gun on the French train had been in a woman only carriage, it is less likely that other women who were in there because they felt vulnerable would have been as able to overpower them. I realise that is a very extreme example but there is generally safety in numbers. Isolating people who feel vulnerable may actually make things worse
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Old 26.08.2015, 15:00
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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...

I would like a carriage that has no audible music, no people who smell, no noisy children and only people who have short legs that don't cross the centre line of opposing seats...
It's called first class- not open to poor people.
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Old 26.08.2015, 15:10
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

On Breakfast TV this morning, most of the female experts were NOT in favour of the idea. They demanded adequate security.

Various reasons were given, mainly that if you segregate people into weak and strong groups, the weaker group becomes even more frightened, and when they must leave the group (ie. Train) they are not feeling brave at all, and send out all the wrong signals.
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Old 26.08.2015, 15:11
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

Very good idea. I'm a woman, so I'd like to travel in women carriages only.

Children bug me, so I'd like a carriage where only women with no kids under 18 can travel.

I find women chewing gum and listening to loud music are rude. So, I'd like a carriage free of those, please.

In fact, people in general bother me.

Can I please have a carriage all for me?

I'M A WOMAN!!!!
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Old 26.08.2015, 15:19
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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Can I please have a carriage all for me?

I'M A WOMAN!!!!
Sure - not a problem - you can select your carriage here
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Old 26.08.2015, 15:24
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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Sure - not a problem - you can select your carriage here


Next we'll see another genius saying that women need their own lane on the motorways, in case we find male drivers, I don't know, too hairy?
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Old 26.08.2015, 15:39
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

Actually the concept was first suggested by Tory Transport Minister Claire Perry in September 2014. It's not a new concept anyway. Japan has had women only carriages for years. Many indoor carparks in Switzerland have some parking places reserved for women near the entrance.

I can see why many women would want this but at the same time what an admission of failure that harrassment is so prevalent that we're at the point of contemplating gender segregation.

I think it would be difficult and costly to enforce though
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Old 26.08.2015, 16:01
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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Japan has had women only carriages for years.
Well, but how about we put things into context:
- these carriages are on some lines of the Tokyo subway, not on normal trains
- If I remember correctly were those carriages only "women only" during the rush hours
- anyone who has never been on the Tokyo subway: it's so cramped during those hours that the operator used to hire "pushers" that would squeeze people in...
- men abusing this situation and groping women and especially high school girls is a widespread issue - as in "the majority of high school aged girls experience it first hand". I don't think the same is true for Switzerland or the UK.

If sexual violence on trains is a topic in the UK should politicians address it. Women only carriages should only be the absolute last resort - at the point where there is no other way of stopping men. And I don't think this is the situation anywhere in the UK or Switzerland.
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Old 26.08.2015, 16:14
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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Actually the concept was first suggested by Tory Transport Minister Claire Perry in September 2014. It's not a new concept anyway. Japan has had women only carriages for years. Many indoor carparks in Switzerland have some parking places reserved for women near the entrance.

I can see why many women would want this but at the same time what an admission of failure that harrassment is so prevalent that we're at the point of contemplating gender segregation.

I think it would be difficult and costly to enforce though
Thats a good point. Women-only spaces are not exactly unheard of in Europe or even, as you point out, in Switzerland.

I don't think its as much an admission of failure, as it is an appreciation of the severity of the problem. If indeed the problem is as big as its made out to be, it at least offers women, some of who may feel vulnerable, an area where they have some security.

Better overall security/CCTV/more security patrols etc are, of course, even better. However, all of that will take time to implement. women-only carriages can be rolled in in relatively short time, and used until the extra security is in place.

Anyone who went to university will remember the night buses from the union for women - i think its the same principle, except in this case, the student union is replaced with the center of London, and the minibus is a train carriage.

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Well, but how about we put things into context:
- these carriages are on some lines of the Tokyo subway, not on normal trains
- If I remember correctly were those carriages only "women only" during the rush hours
- anyone who has never been on the Tokyo subway: it's so cramped during those hours that the operator used to hire "pushers" that would squeeze people in...
- men abusing this situation and groping women and especially high school girls is a widespread issue - as in "the majority of high school aged girls experience it first hand". I don't think the same is true for Switzerland or the UK.

If sexual violence on trains is a topic in the UK should politicians address it. Women only carriages should only be the absolute last resort - at the point where there is no other way of stopping men. And I don't think this is the situation anywhere in the UK or Switzerland.
I think these would be proposed only for the 24h London Tube lines. And, to your point about Tokyo being cramped, i think the expectation is that the night tube will be very busy too. Couple that with the fact that many patrons will have been drinking heavily, and security for women becomes more important.

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It's called first class- not open to poor people.
I was waiting for that comment

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This was probably a well-intentioned idea but doesn't seem to have been fully thought out.

Proper security in the first place is more important. Whilst most violence towards women may be by men it is not exclusive.

If the person with the gun on the French train had been in a woman only carriage, it is less likely that other women who were in there because they felt vulnerable would have been as able to overpower them. I realise that is a very extreme example but there is generally safety in numbers. Isolating people who feel vulnerable may actually make things worse
Agreed, proper security is better. But, in the absence of the time and money to implement thousands more security guards, and installation of tens of thousands more CCTV, it might not be a bad temporary step.

The example you've used is not a good one, because nobody is suggesting having women-only carriages on such routes. The situation in both cases is very different, and you cant really transpose one on the other. Who's to say, after all, that a woman (or women) couldn't have overpowered him? or that, any other man, could. It was a very unique (and improbable) turn of events, that led to the gunman attacking a carriage containing soldiers.
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Old 26.08.2015, 16:25
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

I am not in favour of it, seems very un-British to me

I would like to see better security at some stations. There was a station I used some years back about once a fortnight early/mid evening, there was no staff present.

Later someone told me the guard for the station used to pop to the pub as it was quiet!
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Old 26.08.2015, 16:50
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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In a democracy we don't put ideas to a vote only from the people who would benefit. Except in apartheid era South Africa of course.

I would like a carriage that has no audible music, no people who smell, no noisy children and only people who have short legs that don't cross the centre line of opposing seats.

However, I'm reasonable enough to accept that I have to share this with everyone and pay a fare reflecting reasonable compromises. I don't see any reason to accept a sexist proposal to give others more rights on the same service.
There are women-only Sauna/wellness and swimming pool days here in Switzerland, parking spaces (as someone on here pointed out) and coffee mornings! Why can't women play in the Premier league in mens football teams then? It's not really sexist to have women train carriages really for the purpose of their safety.

Last edited by Hausamsee; 26.08.2015 at 17:02.
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Old 26.08.2015, 16:58
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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There are women-only Sauna/wellness and swimming pool days here in Switzerland, parking spaces (as someone on here pointed out) and coffee mornings! Why can't women play in the Premier league in mens football teams then?It's not really sexist to have women train carriages really for the purpose of their safety.
Pointing out existing cases of sex discrimination is hardly a reason to add another.

The only one that has a clear basis is the football, simply because men are on average stronger, and clearly stronger at the higher end of fitness and training, and this is relevant in a physical sport. Of course it works the other way - men can't play in a women's league either.
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Old 26.08.2015, 17:03
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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Pointing out existing cases of sex discrimination is hardly a reason to add another.

The only one that has a clear basis is the football, simply because men are on average stronger, and clearly stronger at the higher end of fitness and training, and this is relevant in a physical sport. Of course it works the other way - men can't play in a women's league either.
Are they really?

And would it be the Mens or the Womens league who started segregation in the first place?
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Old 26.08.2015, 17:18
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Re: Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea!

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Are they really?

And would it be the Mens or the Womens league who started segregation in the first place?
Yes - just look at the world records for any elite sport and the difference is clear.

"Who started it" is a playground argument, which may well fit with the general quality of the debate in the labour leadership contest but doesn't really add any value.
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