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  #61  
Old 29.08.2015, 09:09
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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You know stuff like this would't happen if they didn't have an incentive to come here.

The only people that are profiting out of this situation are people smugglers.
And those who manage to make it somewhere in Western Europe, of course.
Not all of them should receive the refugee or asylum seeker status but some of them - yes. Would be much better if the procedures would be shorter and with less loopholes.
They cross the sea to come here, they also come from Turkey via Greece, why Turkey doesn't protect their borders? I'm afraid that things are not as simple as "cut the Schengen agreement" as it seems. (This agreement proved to be beneficial to the economies of so many states, you have no idea how transportation companies would suffer from this. Lots of goods are transported via motorways in Europe, you perhaps never had to wait days in a queue, as a lorry driver.)

Anyway, while they are here and waiting for their cases to be solved, they should be treated with dignity, no?
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  #62  
Old 29.08.2015, 09:30
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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I apologise. Above took place in Serbia, NOT Hungary.
On a serious note, I do think this is a great gesture, and 1000x more than the majority here is willing to do (including me). Its just very hard to not get depressed or narcissistic, about the fact that the majority are economic refugees, taking away much needed resources from people who do need it desperately.
I do admire this action and will no longer steal this thread, cheers

No, the majority are NOT economic refugees but flee from war (Syria) and dictatorship (Eritrea)
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  #63  
Old 29.08.2015, 09:41
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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No, the majority are NOT economic refugees but flee from war (Syria) and dictatorship (Eritrea)
Re. that video - I thought that when you're in a desperate situation you can't afford to be a chooser.
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  #64  
Old 29.08.2015, 11:09
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Re. that video - I thought that when you're in a desperate situation you can't afford to be a chooser.

The refugees from Eritrea and from Syria and from Afghanistan did and do NOT a lot of choosing but simply take whatever chance they have got




BTW., the various internal wars in Afghanistan are flaring up again as never before. Lebanon and Jordan have more than a Million Syria refugees each
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  #65  
Old 29.08.2015, 12:35
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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No, the majority are NOT economic refugees but flee from war (Syria) and dictatorship (Eritrea)
Sorry Wolly but from where I am sitting the majority are economic migrants
(I won't even call them refugees) the newest thing to hit (Maltese) shores are Libyan, (ha ha) """Refugees""" coming here, all poor and persecuted, fleeing from war and hunger and yadda, yadda, yadda... You see the very same poor refugees a bit later when the container with their cars and stuff has arrived, the amount of BMW X5, Merc AMG, Maserati's, Lambo's Porches and Ferrari's with Libyan plates on maltese roads is staggering, simply staggering.
Roaring around, screech start and stop, blatant disregard for anybody else on the road and showing everybody just how tough things are for them.
My only consolidation is that the roads of Malta will turn them to scrap very soon and it's so satisfying to see a libyan tagged Bentley with a Maltese kiss, (dent)
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  #66  
Old 29.08.2015, 14:08
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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No, the majority are NOT economic refugees but flee from war (Syria) and dictatorship (Eritrea)
The majority of the migrants are from Kosovo, Serbia and Albania.

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And those who manage to make it somewhere in Western Europe, of course.
Not all of them should receive the refugee or asylum seeker status but some of them - yes. Would be much better if the procedures would be shorter and with less loopholes.
They cross the sea to come here, they also come from Turkey via Greece, why Turkey doesn't protect their borders? I'm afraid that things are not as simple as "cut the Schengen agreement" as it seems. (This agreement proved to be beneficial to the economies of so many states, you have no idea how transportation companies would suffer from this. Lots of goods are transported via motorways in Europe, you perhaps never had to wait days in a queue, as a lorry driver.)

Anyway, while they are here and waiting for their cases to be solved, they should be treated with dignity, no?
Which is more important dead bodies or lorries queuing at boarders?

Schengen makes the process of getting across Europe much easier. If you got rid of Schengen there wouldn't be as many people willing to take the risk trying to reach Western Europe. If they want to stop seeing bodies washed up on beaches and in lorries this needs to go.

If you make the process easier it'll just invite more people to come. Germany said this week that the Dublin regulation doesn't apply to people from Syria. This means that every Syrian now has the right to go to Germany. There will now be more deaths and the people smugglers will profit.

Close the jam jar and the wasps won't come. Stop Schengen, stop benefits for migrants and this problem will go away.
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  #67  
Old 29.08.2015, 14:35
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

This thread has been taken massively off topic and demonstrates in my opinion both the 'Best' and 'Worst' of EF. Soleil is undertaking a humanitarian drive to a defined place in Hungary where there is a real crisis, so you can either show support and engage with her, or I would suggest, 'move on'.

Conflating it with Libyan playboys in Malta or pouring scorn on refugees in general is a topic for another thread (for which there are many).
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  #68  
Old 29.08.2015, 14:44
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

Thank you for all of those who promised contribution.
We will receive:
- 2 donations in material
- 1 monetary donation which will be turned into plastic mattrasses this afternoon
- 1 tesco shopping to the border (Szeged)

At Szeged they rather need food and drink, here in Budapest we rather need mattrasses and covers, sleeping bags as refugees are spending the night in the underpass, on the ground).
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  #69  
Old 31.08.2015, 01:58
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

I bought 10 mattrasses from one donation from you. It was a much needed delivery, people are laying around the main stations on the ground.
Luckily we got some more from the locals but they go fast.
Kids created some art from play-doh, mum and dad hugging each other, mum with the baby, snowman, flowers. No guns They were absolutely super proud of their work.
Others were playing with the balls, they had great fun and at night they took the balls into the tents (sleeping buddies?). When I tried to get them back, a 10, 12 years old little guy told me in perfect English not to worry, he will not be able to carry them in the bagpack. Well, I did not find the balls today

At Nyugati (West station), there are apocaliptical conditions. Darkness, stink, mud. The toilets were being cleaned, that is why. There is no stone ground, it is just soil.
People were standing in a long queue for food distribution. As this is solely done by volunteers from donations it takes a lot of time until 2-3 people prepares 600 sandwiches. And it takes time because they ran out of cheese and bread. There was a shout out on facebook in the West group: all! cheese and bread, now!
So I rushed to a mall which was open on Sunday and bought 6 kg prepacked processed cheese (can be given right away, does not require any work) and 24 packs of bread. From my own taxed money.
I hardly made it to the container - kids were approaching me saying "please, please" so they got 1 each.

I went to Déli (South station), it is the less crowded place, they had some extra food, so packed 3 sacks and went back to Nyugati. At 10 pm the queue was still the same length as at 6 pm. I took a kurdish guy with me - which is deemed illegal, because refugees can't sit in my car, can't stay in my home. They can die in a lorry but can't recover in someone's home.
He is supposed to take the train to the camp to Debrecen, 3 hours to the east. He got out from the car at Nyugati, tried to find his lost brother, and was back at the car in 1 minute. He wanted to go back to Déli desparately - he saw the unbearable conditions, he felt anxious, he did not want to go to the camp. So we went back to Déli.

At Déli a cracked heel required some care. The family was very ice, the teenage girl was just like mine, she chatted on the phone endlessly. When I asked her if she needs anything, she wanted to go to a beautician.
The mum's legs were very swollen, I hope it is only from the long walk and not something more serious. We could only give her an extra blanket to raise her legs for the night.
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  #70  
Old 31.08.2015, 02:13
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

On my way home I drive along the immigration office. There are always some people laying on the ground on a piece of cardboard. The luckier ones have got a matrass or a tent.

A volunteer prepared a text in arab so that we can get in contact with the people. They can read it and they understand that we try to help and we are not some disguised police people.
If you are interested I can show you the text.
So, 2 young guys were laying on a cardboard in the street, I gave them the text, they were somewhat relieved. They were happy to get bottles of water and apple. They were hungry and showed me that they wanted a flying animal. Got chicken burgers for them. They spent all their money on train tickets to Germany - our police took them off of the train.
The one expression that everybody knows: no camp no camp. They got word about the conditions in the camps, and their first experiece was very cruel, so they do not want any more of the Hungarian hospitality.
They did not seem to have any plans. I tried to explain to them to go to Déli, there are better conditions, and perhaps connections there.

A family came out of the immigration office (this also happened on Sunday afternoon). They were detained there or I don't know. Their case was just finished at this time. I gave them my "pass" with the arabic text and they started to cry. They could not believe someone did not want to hurt them and treat them as criminals.
Probably it was their first experience on Hungarian soil that someone took them as human beings. Shameful, so shameful!
Anyway they wanted a taxi to take them to Germany. no camp, no camp.
I could not help in that one.
They should go to Bicske, another overcrowded camp to stay there appr. 3 months until their case is judged.
I explained them how to get to Déli and that there we try to provide for some basic needs.
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  #71  
Old 31.08.2015, 02:22
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

It is very important so that the world knows:
Refugees are trapped in Hungary. I write it again: Refugees are trapped in Hungary.
If they enter the country, they are deemed illegal. Therefore their case is "suspended". Noone knows what that supposed to mean.
Some are detained into refugee camps. These are overcrowded facilities. Volunteers and media CANNOT enter these camps.
Refugees have to reach these camps in 24 hours. They don't get a map, a route, and their judgement is written in Hungarian official language. Sometimes they get a colourful armband which means they have to go to the immigration office (appr. 1 hour with public transport from the stations) but there is no extra bus or no written help how to get there.

They are absolutely lost in the system and this cruel system is designed deliberately so. We still wonder at each case what the person should do, where to go, etc.
Basicly, a refugee can get illegal in 24 hours which is a nonsense.
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  #72  
Old 31.08.2015, 03:45
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

Great real time documentary here:
https://www.facebook.com/budapestphotodiary
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  #73  
Old 31.08.2015, 08:21
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

Meantime in Keleti Railaway station, Budapest. Everyone wants to get to Germany..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=67K1oUWzny4
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  #74  
Old 31.08.2015, 10:05
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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........
Out of interest, did you hear any of their stories? Where they're from etc.?

3000 new migrants entered Hungary just yesterday. The situation isn't getting better.

Germany is turning into the modern day Canaan.
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  #75  
Old 31.08.2015, 10:33
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Out of interest, did you hear any of their stories? Where they're from etc.?

3000 new migrants entered Hungary just yesterday. The situation isn't getting better.

Germany is turning into the modern day Canaan.
It's not much better in Serbia either. We have a friend who just came back from there and Belgrade sounds very similar to Budapest at the moment.
The Serbians are also now appealing for help in managing the crisis as they too are one of the first countries the migrants reach.

I heard on the radio this morning that there will be an 'emergency' meeting in Luxembourg in September (14th I think) to try to find a solution the the problem.
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  #76  
Old 31.08.2015, 10:38
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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...They spent all their money on train tickets to Germany - our police took them off of the train....

...Anyway they wanted a taxi to take them to Germany...
Did they explain why they wanted Germany specifically?
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  #77  
Old 31.08.2015, 10:46
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

Hi Soleil, I think you are an amazing person.
I've sent you a PM, let's talk more when you have the time.
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  #78  
Old 31.08.2015, 10:47
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Did they explain why they wanted Germany specifically?
different reasons:
-relatives already living there or existence of a community (like afghan and now syrian).
- refugees feel their rights will be respected in Germany but far less in Hungary or Slovakia.
- positive image of Germany (economy, education, heathcare.....) they see it as probably the best place for their children to have a future.
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  #79  
Old 31.08.2015, 11:17
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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- positive image of Germany (economy, education, heathcare.....) they see it as probably the best place for their children to have a future.
And to think that only 80 years ago Germany was in search of more living space for it's overcrowded population.

Tom
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Old 31.08.2015, 12:20
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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When others helped Hungarians in 1945-49 and in 1956 to 58 and in 68 to 59 and in 99 and to 2000 it was alright but now they have become arrogrant snobs
Nobody helped Hungary in 1957. The West looked on while the Soviets massacred protesters. Hungary has a long history of being kicked around and overrun by other nations. No wonder they're not exactly well intentioned to new waves of people doing the same.
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